Phish C/D

I was a huge Phishhead in middle school at the tail end of 1.0 and saw them twice back then (5/21/00 Radio City Music Hall and 9/22/00 Rosemont, IL--the latter was KILLER). I drifted away from them after that but the 2017 Baker's Dozen spectacle pulled me back in in a big way--just a huge achievement playing 13 GOOD consecutive concept shows with no repeats and packed with thrills like the live debut of End of Session after 19 years.

They have so many great songs and jams, but what I keep coming back to is the Reba jam. The song itself is fun, zany prog-mode Phish, but the way they ride those two blissed-out chords in the jam section is like heroin thru the veins for me. So currently vibing to Reba 12/7/97--Page getting properly spacy on the Rhodes with tasty, delicate leads from Trey. Brad otm re: Story of the Ghost upthread; that's def where they peaked studiowise. Guyute is their Terrapin Station

Is it generally accepted that people who like "Farmhouse" are posers? Like the equivalent of a Touchhead? Because I think I really like "Farmhouse."

Gonna check out the rest of the Island tour shows today. Damn you all

I like large swaths of Farmhouse, but I absolutely loath both "Heavy Things" and "Gotta Jibboo" (though the later has gotten some decent workouts on stage), so I can never fully embrace it. The opening and the closing run from "Dirt" to "First Tube" are both great.

It's weird, I don;t know if there is any real general consensus on Phish studio albums. There's a sizable contingent these days that seems to essentially ignore the studio records and don't care about them at all, but I do know of quite a few fans that dig Farmhouse and look at it as their Workingmans' Dead/American Beauty (i.e. super distilled version of one particular thread of Phish songwriting, that happens to lean more heavily towards a folk/country sound in parts - though the comparison isn't precise).

I came on board with Rift and still think it's pretty enjoyable and compelling. The sequencing is smooth, the production is crisp, the performances are energetic, a phenomenal batch of songs.

Hey y'all, bona fide Phish head here. First off, it is a treat to see them getting some love on ilx. I definitely fall into the category of Phish fans whose defense of their lyrics, singing, songwriting, scene, etc. is often feeble and apologetic. So really nice to see people from other corners of the musical world appreciating what they do.

I was at 4/4/98 and it is indeed awesome. I think most Phish fans still recognize the Island Tour as pretty close to their peak -- all the adventurousness of their playing in 1997 with the added jolt of the freedom that came from scheduling 4 off-the-cuff shows just because they were itching to get out in front of an audience again. The second set of 4/3/98 is the pinnacle for me; as Brad mentioned, in addition to the looong, patient jam out of Roses are Free, do check out the Piper that followed it. Equally patient and subtle. For those who are novices checking this stuff out, I also strongly recommend Twist from the first night, 4/2. After some pro forma jamming it really gets to an amazing place.

Studio albums: it seems like the first 4 or so have come to be regarded by fans as classics, and the longer the band exists the more fans seem to rate all of the albums from the 90s, but I think there's more than a hint of nostalgia/distance driving that reappraisal. It's weird to me that anyone would see Farmhouse as their masterpiece, as half the songs are leftovers from the songwriting explosion that led to the previous album, SOTG. And I agree with you jon, Heavy Things and Gotta Jibboo back to back in the middle of the album is just so dire and really kills it. I think what it has going for it is that they sort of hit on the ideal sound for studio Phish, but the song selection and sequencing negates that for me.

Personally, I stan for Junta, Rift, and Billy Breathes, and never reach for any of the others. Junta may be hard to take for non-fans because there's a lot of silliness in the lyrics, but there's something super charming about the clean, basic production on these long proggy songs that you get used to hearing in the high octane live environment. With Rift I have never really been able to hear the criticisms. To my ears the production sounds a lot richer and fuller than all their previous albums, they were writing more ambitious lyrics and actually hitting on many of them, the complex/proggy songwriting is toned down such that it serves the songs better, and the eclecticism of the previous 2 albums is smoothed out just enough for the whole thing to feel cohesive (previous album Picture of Nectar is the antithesis of cohesive). Billy Breathes was long regarded as their "masterpiece" as it were, but that does seem to be slipping somewhat. I think it is still probably their most successful album, but it is also maybe the one least representative of what the band's overall thing is. So.

Happy to make additional personalized recommendations if people are looking to dip their toes into this band. I guarantee a better job than Harris Wittels RIP. and I'm always looking for ways to justify the embarrassing amount of space the Phish live catalog takes up in my brain!

Here's the one performance I'd recommend to anyone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MzLuQXUeh0

xpost glad you agree on Rift, peace, man!

Sounds like a pretty good testimonial in the album's favor, imo!

Nice post Lavator. I would definitely throw Billy Breathes up as my favorite studio record, it's the one I go back to the most. SOTG would be a close second, such a weird, knotty record.

xp Lavator that Ghost from 5/22/00 is fantastic! I was at the previous night's show at Radio City, which I found kind of underwhelming at the time. Looks like I picked the wrong show of that run.

I was kind of disappointed by Farmhouse because it was such a sharp turn away from the deep funk of SOTG and Slip Stitch and Pass, but it's held up pretty well. If Phish has a "Workingman's Dead/American Beauty" I'd say it's Billy Breathes

I can see that, but I really feel like Farmhouse better fits the WD/AB mold because it was the one to break out with a wider audience. I think I caught "Free" once or twice on alt-rock radio back in the day, but "Heavy Things" and "Back on the Train" were inescapable on AAA stations when Farmhouse was released. That felt like the point where Phish was being most widely acknowledged by more mainstream radio at least.

But, yeah, Billy Breathes is most definitely the better album of the two.

livephish no. 8, a '99 show in camden, nj, is really solid throughout, contains the best "chalkdust torture" i've heard and probably the best "bathtub gin" (not normally one of my faves) too. second set is pretty immediately off the chain with a slow heavy "tweezer" that works itself into a really odd space and then a "birds of a feather" that fuckin' cooks which is what i really care about

my friend recommended this show to me by saying that the "chalkdust torture" turns into stereolab and she is not wrong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xZMHQjRTSM

fucking amazing 18 minute "fluffhead" too my god

Yeah, that’s a great one! Sadly one of the many Live Phish sets I had that was destroyed by the mystery goo.

i enjoyed that show so much that i had to hear another summer '99 show, and the only other official release from that tour is 7/23/99 at the polaris ampitheatre in columbus, oh. starts off a little slow but the last thirty minutes of the surprisingly long first set are incredible, and then the second set is... def the best second set i've heard after my all-time favorite show (4/4/98). "ghost" > "free" alone is like floating. absolutely worth the $10 i paid for it on livephish dot com

goddamn i love "birds of a feather" so much

I love when Brad goes on a Phish kick! I’ve always loved a good “BOAF” jam.

Hey y'all, please check out this awesomeness. Depending how deep your Phish kicks have gone this song may not be as deeply embedded in your DNA as it is in mine, but this is a revelatory arrangement any way you slice it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtGTKE-RKTU

I haven't been able to check out any of the Beacon Jams shows, but def going to give that a watch later. Thanks for the reminder!

YEM one of the few Phish songs I still listen to. This version is exemplary.

Thanks, Lavator - beautiful, and then I was just was grinning like a goofball from 5 and a half minutes onwards - infectious joy! Looks like I'll be binging these shows over the weekend.

listening to live show and this band getting "funky" might be the worst thing in existence

Dud.

classic!!!!!

the funky era is the best one

the drummer is so bad at it

the drummer is probably the best musician in phish lol

well...

I mean, there are a lot of valid criticisms of Phish, but saying they are "bad musicians" just shows me that someone has no intention of negotiating with their music in good faith.

they are definitely an example of how good musician doesn't necessarily translate to good music

They are great musicians! They just have trouble with doing certain things that a lot of great musicians have. (xpost w josh)

The parts where they get more spacey and into out there jam territory are what they are good at (for me)

Okay, fair, I guess you weren't really suggesting they weren't, I just see that argument so often and it drives me crazy.

What show are you listening to UMS? some of their funkiness admittedly embarrassing. other times very good tho

so...selected semi at-random: LivePhish Vol 7 8/14/93 World Music Theatre

I saw em live once, and this confirms my basic feeling, I like the second half of longer songs or jams when they get more out there/jazz fusion/prog/spacey/pretty, just feel like i have to sit through a pretentious spin doctors song to get there

divided sky and split open and melt were the best for me so far

Ha, sounds like how I feel about Zappa, minus the Spin Doctors part. More the feeling of sitting through some truly awful moments to get to moments of brilliance/bliss.

To my mind Phish really didn't start digging into the "funk" sound until after '96-'97 when they started to stretch out stuff like "Wolfman's Brother" and "Ghost". Also, I've always felt that the Phish "funk" is a bit of a misnomer, because it really has very little to do with any traditional definition of what we think of as funk, like P-Funk or whatever.

I go back and forth on my Phish sympathies - the only constant being that I rarely feel like listening to them and when I do, it's not in large doses. But since this is on the topic of funk:

how's life wrote this on thread worst album covers ever: Primus -vs- Phish on board I Love Music on Mar 8, 2018

xps:

I was a Phish fan for about 7 years and what really broke them for me was when I went to check out some of the songs they had been covering. Especially Purple Rain. Can you imagine never having heard Purple Rain, only the jokey Phish cover, and then finding the Prince album on discount cassette one day and buying it just because what the hell? I had my fucking head blown off. It was like I had been lied to about the nature of music. Same for Sneaking Sally Through the Alley, Boogie On Reggae Woman, dozens more.

I mean, just

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kA_lcxxQaY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6IMshcg-ow

Phish were creative and adventurous improvisers in 1993 but hadn't yet learned to (or cared to be) consistently patient or subtle. I'd recommend checking out Live Phish Vol 11, 11/17/97 to hear some more adept funkiness. Granted it is still not conventional funkiness that is comparable to the Meters or P-Funk or whatever. It's very much its own thing. But look to the 1997-2000 era for considerably more tasteful funking. The latter half of that era is less funky but will yield greater returns in the spacey/pretty genre that you may enjoy more.

if you really want me to nerd out I could give plenty more specific recs

xps basically what j/v/c said!

and yeah i've never understood why Boogie on Reggae Woman is a fan favorite. SO FAR INFERIOR to Stevie. ugh that repetitive guitar chording. i guess it's a fun bass showcase

comments re Purple Rain otoh really not fair to Phish. criticize them if you will for choosing that song as one to mock but it's obviously not intended to be a "musical" cover, it's comedic

yeah if you have a recommend that's more on the jams/space/pretty etc i'm all ears

we just got to this song "esther" this spoken word over a looney tunes version of "alabama song" by the doors is getting on my last nerve

Classic af. I don't have the time or energy to write a coherent defense, but I WILL RETURN

ok we're out of the woods on esther now

i shouldn't be talking this much shit tbh

i guess phish is like my mom and christianity, she goes to a liberal, very social active church and i can def see how it affects her life in positive ways, in terms of comfort, community, service to others etc etc, but when i go to church with her on easter or xmas like i can't *believe* it the way she does, even if i appreciate it on a level

so...selected semi at-random: LivePhish Vol 7 8/14/93 World Music Theatre

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Thursday, February 11, 2021 9:29 AM (twenty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

this isn’t even from the funk period!!!!!

the only livephish i truly rep for is 97-99. a live one is also a good record

ums - curious to know what you'd think of the half hour "Wolfman's Brother" from 11/19/97, I was in the audience for that one and it is essentially what converted me. It's filler on LivePhish 11, which I believe is on Spotify.

I'd also recommend the "Tweezer" from 12/30/19, a rather recent example of a killer deep dive jam that flips through multiple sections. I've spent a lot of time with that one.

and yeah i've never understood why Boogie on Reggae Woman is a fan favorite. SO FAR INFERIOR to Stevie. ugh that repetitive guitar chording. i guess it's a fun bass showcase

otm, particularly when I think "Roses Are Free" did a better job of mining a similar vein

xp Esther is gorgeous once they get past the "oom-pa-pa" part

lol i see this was covered