kanye west

the starving ghostwriters aren't writing for like Kanye, they're writing for like, some dude who is in the 9 pm slot as the local opener for Run the Jewels

Re: Forster, that’s some high-grade bullshit right there. Describing Proust’s ‘despair’ as ‘fundamental’ is quite the projection.

― pomenitul, Thursday, July 23, 2020

Yeah. I blame Forster's ghost writers.

anyway, I cited the line b/c it's clearer now that for Kanye despair is fundamental, and there's a lot to despair over.

xp. But not every ghostwriter is a Jay-Z, Frank Ocean, etc. level celebrity right? Those guys ain't starving but it's not the same situation for someone who isn't already an established name like that. You get good money SOMETIMES for participating in the production of these works as a ghostwriter, but again; the fact that your name is never directly associated with the work, while as "a single by the artist Kanye West" it goes on to sell tens or hundreds of millions and earn massive levels of worldwide attention and acclaim... the name/brand recognition from that will almost always more significant than whatever meager royalty you were paid to not have your name on it. And again, that's IF you're compensated at all; even an artist as "big" as Aphex Twin almost didn't receive anything when Ye sampled Avril 14th on MBDTF. "Ghostwriting" wouldn't really even be a stigma if the writer in that situation was always being truly appropriately compensated for their involvement in the work IMO. Again, not to derail or scapegoat Kanye as some specific abusive tyrant of an army of ghostwritten raps or anything.

pretty sure the producer who spent a mill to sample 21st Century Schizoid Man isn't paying $50 for "MC Scoliosis" to write his rhymes

I never said that he did, although recent stuff like Poopity scoop does makes me wonder what he does hypothetically pay whoever writes his rhymes now

considering some of the guests on KTSE went unpaid until recently it's possible they did it for nothing. (ime the uber wealthy are always the cheapest motherfuckers alive)

Imagine being the ghostwriter tasked with coming up with "Lift Yourself"

"it's never going to get out that I wrote this, right?"

"This is a good start, but at this part I was thinking we could say 'scoop-dee-WHOOP' instead of 'scoop-dee-POOP', switch it up a little on 'em you know?"

lol

p sure I unequivocally love Lift Yourself, had never heard it till last night

btw richard james is credited on 'blame game,' he's definitely gotten paid

xp to trevor phillips' nonsense

ftr the good songs on Yeezus still bang like fuck, which makes the bad songs that much more disappointing to me

of course I'd forgotten about "I'd rather be a dick than a swallower" when I typed that, yeesh

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/aug/26/aphex-twin-kanye-west-avril-14th-sample-blame-game

xp Yea, and he apparently had to fight for that credit. This was old news and also not the first time a story or claim like this had been made about Kanye. Fuck off

I remember this with Syl Johnson

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-news/kanye-west-and-jay-z-settle-syl-johnson-lawsuit-91675/

Jay-Z and Kanye West have settled a federal lawsuit by soul singer Syl Johnson, who claimed that the duo used an unauthorized sample of his song “Different Strokes” on “The Joy,” a track on the deluxe version of their album Watch the Throne.

According to Johnson, West had attempted to clear the sample for his 2010 record My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy, but could not get the deal ready in time for its release and ended up putting the track on Throne without his permission, proper credit or payment. The details of West and Jay-Z’s settlement with Johnson have not been made public, though legal papers filed in Illinois last week indicate that the suit has been dismissed.

he didn't get the King Crimson sample approved til after the fact either fwiw

Sampling first and clearing later is so common though (not that it's admirable or anything). Also I'm sure this is something he leaves up to his legal team, it's not like he's calling up RDJ or Robert Fripp (although it's probably impossible to clear samples when the record is released two hours after getting mastered).

the rdj story a bit more damning than "he didn't have time to clear his sample before dropping the record." to be fair to kanye, he's been very exhaustive about crediting co-writers, producers, and sample sources from yeezus on. the lists of credited writers are looooong.

it's not like he's calling up RDJ or Robert Fripp

Apparently, there literally was a West-Fripp phone call, as related in this Rolling Stone story:

Kanye West even prominently sampled “21st Century Schizoid Man” for 2010’s “Power.” Fripp relates the story about how he called West personally to iron out a last-minute sample clearance before a BET performance. “What I said to Kanye was, ‘I’ll make it happen,'” Fripp says, pronouncing the rapper’s name “can-yee.” “‘Cause here was an artist who effectively had been fucked over by his record company, who was just about to do a live broadcast on major TV and he didn’t know whether he could do the piece he was rehearsing or not.”

kanye's sample sources are vanilla as fuck and always have been. almost as "good" as his rapping.

everything he does is a contrived move to start "DISCOURSE." the music matters later, but what can be said "about" it right now?

i mean, just look at his very first single: 'through the wire' wasn't just an effort at making a good song. the song itself was about how the song was made. it's a type of faux "genuine, earnest" presentation that lacks any sort of substance. i just can't believe people continue to fall for it.

Watch The Throne is legit great except for "Otis"

Don't forget the Manzanera sample in "No Church in the Wild":

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/features/phil-manzanera-on-jay-z-kanye-west-and-the-riff-that-changed-his-life-10128766.html

the song itself was about how the song was made. it's a type of faux "genuine, earnest" presentation that lacks any sort of substance.

don't really understand how the second sentence follows the first here.

ya heard it here first, kanye west is the first artist to ever self-mythologize.

I understand how people hate the more, um, erratic and inscrutable work from 2013 onward, I truly do, even if i defend it.

But through the wire is very good and relatable.

change display name (Jordan) at 3:47 23 Jul 20

Sampling first and clearing later is so common though (not that it's admirable or anything). Also I'm sure this is something he leaves up to his legal team, it's not like he's calling up RDJ or Robert Fripp (although it's probably impossible to clear samples when the record is released two hours after getting mastered).

the Syl Johnson thing is shitty though cuz the tried to clear it for Twisted then just did it without permission later

xp: but that's all he's ever done. he's done a lot of mythologizing and next to nothing in the way of actually living up to any of it, outside of continuing to repeat his self-aggrandizing.

to voodoo's point mythologizing oneself in hip hop it's so prevalent, especially since Biggie and Pac it feels a bit weird to call out Kanye on it

to summarize:

Kanye was/can be an amazing producer for other artists

Kanye has had a very unique and distinctive style as a producer

Kanye is not the most skilled rapper in the world, but definitely had an engaging and unique style with memorable lines in great songs

Kanye is an asshole

Kanye is a misogynist

Kanye has severe mental illness problems

These problems were likely exacerbated by the death of his mom

These mental illness issues help explain but do not excuse his support of Trump and other bad behavior

As Kanye's mental health issues have appeared to worsen, his music has suffered

His beats are now often sloppy and half baked

His "Christian faith" is a judgmental tub of prosperity gospel, resentment and persecution complex bullshit

He made a shitload on sneakers and clothes

He probably needs to step away from public life and concentrate on getting mental health

It seems likely he will do this

He's undeniably a compelling and complex public figure

He's a messy bitch

the thing is though: 2pac and biggie had actual skills and talent.

But through the wire is very good and relatable

yeah, because who hasn't tried to rap mediocrity while having one's jaw wired shut. so #relateable

i don't really understand what's so self-aggrandizing about 'through the wire,' he spends the majority of the song alternatively making fun of himself and thanking god he survived

lock thread

xp

3rd to last pt seems the opposite of likely to me

Too much braggadocio (or these other tropes).

it's about overcoming hardship and appreciating the people who were in your corner when you were at your lowest.

none of his really beserk personality traits were that pronounced back then. xp

3rd to last pt seems the opposite of likely to me

― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:58 PM (two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

dang that was a typo, yes very unlikely

i don't really understand what's so self-aggrandizing about 'through the wire,' he spends the majority of the song alternatively making fun of himself and thanking god he survived

― mozzy star (voodoo chili), Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:57 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

one thing he was very good at was undercutting his ego with little self-effacing asides that pointed out his own hypocrisy in a fun way

i don't really understand what's so self-aggrandizing about 'through the wire,' he spends the majority of the song alternatively making fun of himself and thanking god he survived

― mozzy star (voodoo chili), Thursday, July 23, 2020 4:57 PM (four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

one thing he was very good at was undercutting his ego with little self-effacing asides that pointed out his own hypocrisy in a fun way

like the last verse of Gold Digger for instance

he has done this in more recent albums too. like people act like the "croissants" line in "i am a god" was serious on his part and they're the only ones who recognize its ridiculousness.

xpost UMS otm lock thread

...

i mean isn't kanye's mythologizing about how he is a dominant creative force? seems hard to argue with that even if you disagree with his politics. he, you know, won the american game. fake it til you make it is how we do it in us of a and i dont like it either, but all austin is really saying is "i do not like kanye, he makes me mad."

ftr fuck his trump bullshit but all these weird a priori critiques "he's insane!" "he's always been bad" are just so much magical thinking and utterly barren as analysis and remind me of all the denial about how we got trump in the first place tbh ... i know that "it's the system man" is just the inverse of placing all the blame on the individual but it doesn't follow that considering kanye as a toxic american product has no purchase. i mean this all actually really goes deep into questions of how can any success be ethical in an extractivist/neo-colonial political economy, questions of black belonging in a racist country, etc. i dont like kanye's answers to these questions but to reduce it to "he just SUCKS wah" is like, lame

two songs later he has a song about waking up drunk at his ex's house, only to have her aunt show up that morning and kick him out. and that song includes a plug for the Yeezy "red October" sneakers. like, there is humor as well as pathos on yeezus and also on pablo

self xp

i know that "it's the system man" is just the inverse of placing all the blame on the individual but it doesn't follow that considering kanye as a toxic american product has no purchase. i mean this all actually really goes deep into questions of how can any success be ethical in an extractivist/neo-colonial political economy, questions of black belonging in a racist country, etc. i dont like kanye's answers to these questions but to reduce it to "he just SUCKS wah" is like, lame

― Vapor waif (uptown churl), Thursday, July 23, 2020 6:06 PM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

excellent post

the thing is though: 2pac and biggie had actual skills and talent.

so then your problem isn't is mythologizing, you just think he's not talented.

I mean, I don't agree, but at least just say that if that's what you mean, instead of couching it in how he's objectively terrible by the Hip Hop Collective Bargaining Agreement of 1983 or w/e

also "Through the Wire" is a triumph, dude almost died in a car wreck, jaw wired shut, and he managed to rap that song while basically being in pieces, literally and figuratively. I like what he did with the Chaka Khan sample, and ultimately, the song has a humility to it that you'd never find in Kanye circa now. yeah, it's a "gimmick", but it isn't as if he planned to almost die in a car crash.

...(did he?)

sped up chipmunk soul vocal samples are one of the greatest things in the history of music

I remember seeing the Through the Wire video for the first time on BET, was just blown away, instant classic