love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

"we will seize your blood-drenched ill gotten-gains" just quoting my latest fave poster on tankie-forum.com

i've been on an unconscious bias training. i lost faith when they trotted out the "95 percent of brain activity is unconscious" factoid. but i did share a table with a guy who worked with vic and bob, so it wasn't a complete waste.

maybe an unclear line for some people between unconscious and unacknowledged

Wera Hobhouse: If you served in the coalition and describe yourself as centre-left, you must repudiate your involvement with that government.

If only Starmer Labour could have remembered the failings of Milibandism rather than trying to repeat or build on them, as Swinson learned the hard way - there isn't that much of a market for tories in disguise when the real thing is on offer. The Libdems suck shit, but at least there seems to be a genuine sense of things being up in the air with their leadership campaign as opposed to a cakewalk by the right of the party like happened with the labour leadership travesty.

although I can't believe the glacial pace of their leadership campaign, are they saving the bombastic announcement for 2024?

it's not like anybody will remember who the leader is until then

Feel like Johnson might really have fucked up with today's care home comments. Way too transparent in their blame shifting.

The Labour leadership campaign has aged as well as a plate of milk in the Gobi. I just wished members and RLB would have realised at the time that this was a desperate fight to the death, rather than the all this "lets just be civil and support your local team man" bullshit that prevailed. RLB is a good person but was weak and guileless when strength was required, it still makes me angry.

xp remember the first few months of the Trump administration when every other day people were like "he's gone too far this time"?

if one thing RLB will have learned is that there is no point playing the game with right of the party, because they are hypocrites and many ways worse than tories.

Tbh I think unconscious bias training can work in particular circumstances but the person doing it has to be particularly receptive and approaching it in good faith and often doesn't work when they don't. It's likely to go down badly with some Labour MPs. One of the things that should be abundantly clear from the last few years is that people who strongly regard themselves as progressive, whose self-image is built around it, can react very badly and defensively when it's pointed out that perhaps they aren't.

The problem with using it as a reaction to things like the BLM interview is that that interview was an entirely conscious move. Team Starmer know full well that Labour has a problem with a certain type of male voter and have been going all out to address that. To their credit they haven't gone down the full legitimate concerns route but instead that's manifested itself in proudly showing his esteem and admiration for the police, the army. You can't face both ways on this, it becomes impossible to appeal to people who see them as institutions of state protection without fundamentally alienating those who see them as institutions of state violence (often directed at people like them). It's all conscious, they've made the calculations here.

Thing is, what is Brand Starmer at the moment if not an attempt to appeal to people's unconscious biases ('you can just imagine him standing on the steps of Number 10' etc). It certainly isn't about policy or vision yet. So yeah, more Brand Starmer here. He's powerful and forensic and can run Boris Johnson ragged at the dispatch box and also do more press-ups than him. He's a serious man for serious times but can also have a laugh with Piers Morgan - Jeremy Clarkson said he could vote for him! He's a distinguished human rights lawyer but also prosecutes rioters (see my previous paragraph). Lots of boxes ticked there. He's a metropolitan liberal who loves Europe and immigration who marched against the Iraq War but is a friend of the forces.

It's been obvious for a while now that the next election will be fought on turf that's economically expansionary and probably redistributive but also socially authoritarian. Suspect they know they've overclocked on one side now so you'll start to see a drip of announcements to calm soft-left nerves.

Also does anyone know anything about how he made the transition from being a respected human rights/defence lawyer to Director of Public Prosecutions? Feels like a move made with one eye on a political career to me.

It's been obvious for a while now that the next election will be fought on turf that's economically expansionary and probably redistributive but also socially authoritarian.

Need BernieVardy for this not KermitFrog

(tho i think the other half of this as social/cultural is overstated and thats why they keep running into trouble. It's more psychological than social or cultural)

It's more psychological than social or cultural

like when the manifesto was accused of being tmi ?

he can put the ball on the penalty spot but can he put it past the keeper

It's an appeal to the psychological bit as well. A nudge and a wink to different groups that he's on their side really, they'll see. Not like the other guys, who hate people like them.

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/Keir-Starmer-1305876.jpg?r=1594060452854

"A nudge and a wink" and a thumbs up.

Also does anyone know anything about how he made the transition from being a respected human rights/defence lawyer to Director of Public Prosecutions? Feels like a move made with one eye on a political career to me.

aiui, it wasn't much of a shift for him. He was an advisor to the PSNI and ACPO while a human-rights lawyer and saw the reform of the CPS as an extension of his broader interest in making sure that the state functions effectively and more fairly.

I've said before obviously but the psychological is more about "this is what we're going to do" and believing in that the resolve is there otherwise its all cartoon shanks and no wounds

He's doing the opposite of that. He loves BLM on Wednesday he hates BLM on Thursday, this tells people there's nothing there. Need to pick your position and when under fire say "it is what it is pal, next question". There's nothing social or cultural about this

he felt quite strongly at the time that people committing minor benefit fraud should be doing the same amount of bird as a nonce, because that would be a fairer society, that's what I love about this guy *thumbs up*

Saying "this is what we're going to do" is one thing, getting people to believe you can do it is another. The Starmer approach so far is based on trying to convince people of the latter - in a vague, unqualifiable sense - than the former. Johnson has years to decide on what he was going to do so it was ready to go at the precise time he became PM - bears repeating that the 2019 campaign was less about Johnson differentiating himself from Corbyn and more about putting distance between himself and Theresa May/David Cameron.

That works well when you're in opposition (or seen to be, in Johnson's case), but less so when you've been the incumbent for four years and have bungled it every step of the way, which is what Starmer's banking on. Might come as a shock to the system if/when Trump wins in November.

Saying "this is what we're going to do" is one thing, getting people to believe you can do it is another.

100%! The saying is not enough, it's about believability. Its no good just saying you want to score a goal

Might come as a shock to the system if/when Trump wins in November.

You think Trump wins? 10 weeks ago I'd have thought 50-50 but he's got a lot of work to do (especially if capital has decided against him)

I've talked to a few people who voted Tory and admitted they can't stand Johnson and two of them basically said they did it because they had to stop that dangerous extremist Corbyn. The media campaign against him and CCHQ FB stuff worked all to well for them. It will work against Starmer as well.

Trump will win because he's been the incumbent for four years and has bungled it every step of the way. See also Johnson in 2024.

Believability....getting the people who believed in Tories alleged assurances about NHS in their red wall, the people just looking for an excuse to not vote Labour and feel less guilt about it, the people Stockholmed into thinking their area will get more money if it turns blue.

by the time of the next election they'll have some good videos of Starmer trying to triangulate himself into every position and never saying anything and often showing insanely hypiritical contradictions + just generally looking like a very unlikable slippery fucker, he's toast and might as well pack in already.

lol hypocritical

two of them basically said they did it because they had to stop that dangerous extremist Corbyn.

Starmer doesn't have to do much to get them back on side then I guess. Just press ups and pints. No wonder you're so upset!

Feel like Johnson might really have fucked up with today's care home comments. Way too transparent in their blame shifting.

Matt, there's so many posts from you itt talking about how the public will turn against the tories at some point and it never seems to happen :(

i thought 1,500 dying every day might do it but

xxp

get Mr Motivator in! They attacked for his strong political conviction they can just as easily reverse that attack against Starmer's absolute lack of

attacked Corbyn

It depends on how hard the press decide to go against him. If he gets the full bacon sandwich treatment there's not much he can do about it, but my guess would be that he phoned up every newspaper editor on day one and quietly reassured them that he has no intention of implementing any aspect of Leveson. Either that or they are absolutely desperate to get back at him for his role in Operation Elveden and are biding their time.

Not much that can be done about the FB/army of bots stuff, admittedly.

Feel like Johnson might really have fucked up with today's care home comments. Way too transparent in their blame shifting

He'll get away with it because people don't like or trust care homes. They think the owners are only interested in profit and the staff are untrained or incompetent. There's no shortage of pre-Covid horror stories from the care sector and someone will always know someone who knows someone whose old mum was badly treated in a care home while getting rinsed financially. Perfect fall guys. There's no reason to think they won't turn on the NHS at some point too, if convenient.

that pint pic sort of reminds me of the bacon sarnie one, as in misjudged attempt at scoring authentocrat points and looking a bit of a prat. Although obv poor Ed didn't deserve the vile dog-whistle attack.

I don't really get why the thread is so much about Starmer's electoral chances, years away as they are, and whether he can forensically panenka Johnson's head into the onion sack tbh

But on that note, he's obviously harder for the press to attack than any Labour leader since Blair. They'll probably focus more on trying to split the left and centre over BLM etc.

IN THE DOCK Former Labour MP Eric Joyce admits making ‘child sex movie’ involving one-year-old baby
BREAKING

omg @ Eric Joyce, another one of Labour's fine ex-armed forces boys and India Knight's husband!

jesus christ

xxp

yeah it's a boring riff by now, he's much more of a symptom than a cause. the depressing part is trying to see past this phoney meme war into the realm of political possibility, or to find any kind of hope for the future tbh. i've said for long enough that the UK deserves to sink, guess all that's left is to watch it.

Trump will win because he's been the incumbent for four years and has bungled it every step of the way.

Would have been with you on this until April 2020. Big material changes since then though, landscape different

But on that note, he's obviously harder for the press to attack than any Labour leader since Blair.

The urgency isn't there since the title was won, imagine they'll take the foot off the gas, maybe give some of the reserve journos a run out

omg @ Eric Joyce, another one of Labour's fine ex-armed forces boys and India Knight's husband!

I posted about this story on the Politics' Hardest Men thread but I didn't realize he'd gone full on Ian Watkins.

Lol people may not like care homes but we forget that's where Theresa May really fucked up. The Tory lot do care about this.

Goes without saying LOTO should not go under unconscious bias training, it's utterly ludicrous!

Yes, they care about paying money to them because they don't like them.

forensically panenka Johnson's head into the onion sack

Lol people may not like care homes but we forget that's where Theresa May really fucked up. The Tory lot do care about this.

IIRC that was more about social care at home than care homes per se. Specifically the bit about having to sell the family home to recoup the costs.

But yes in principle it is a very bad idea for the Tories to be seen to be too cavalier with the lives of the elderly.

I imagine the idea is for the care homes to be the cavaliers here.

https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/business-53313640?

Watered down Lab policy. They'll need many of these to cover up what's coming.

Yay! I'm going to get me a ten grand boiler with a Rishi voucher and then sell it on e-bay

forensically panenka Johnson's head into the onion sack

― per aspera ad scampo (||||||||), Tuesday, 7 July 2020 10:40 (fifty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Not much that can be done about the FB/army of bots stuff, admittedly.

Which is a worry, because they're going to matter a whole lot more, the invisible WhatsApp/Telegram groups they feed even more so. The press in 2024 isn't going to look much like it did in 2016, the economics and demographics are collapsing.