self-isolating LGBTs of SPRING 2020

So many quiet qualities.

Morbzzz I am so happy to hear that. Hang tough these coming weeks
I have to say, I have never been able to get over the smell of fried food at Julius
But people like it so I go!
I’m holing up big-time this weekend, trying to recharge after way too much thinking this week. My phone is off and anyone who needs me can take. a. seat.

Let freedom ring!

https://vmagazine.com/article/nycs-oldest-gay-bar-may-close/

Noooooo my favourite hang-out. That and The Townhouse, was always my favourite joint to listen to show tunes and smile while old businessmen bought me drinks

i am slipsliding into the core demographic there

They're selling T-shirts on their website and I just emailed them to confirm they're still currently selling them (they are)

https://www.juliusbarny.com/

Queer public sex is at the heart of a culture war b/t radical queers vs reformists. Under the surface, anti-public sex views are steeped in racism, classism, gentrification, and police surveillance.

Why public sex is integral to queerness. For @dailydot.https://t.co/KVj3Qhs8fu

— Ana Valens 🏴 (@acvalens) July 17, 2020

o boy

lol is all I can say

anti-public sex views are steeped in racism

I keep typing and deleting and honestly all I feel comfortable saying here is: o rly

😆 same

I have to put my ex’s pictures away tomorrow
It’s been almost a year
We are still good friends so it hasn’t felt that weird to have them up until now
It’s not exactly that I am heartbroken. it’s just he’s moving on so fast. I guess it’s the closeness of such a good friend that I miss the most. He was my family. And the fear that he just didn t love me as much, there’s shame. I feel like a cliché, letting myself get sad because he’s on a beach somewhere with his new boyfriend. overall I’ve been fine, I just didn’t expect my first year as a single person to be in lockdown. I need to get creative. Truckin’ on.

I mean, I don't really get what's so lol about the public sex thing, but maybe that's just me.

And I should say: I am all for public sex, and have participated in such a number of times

They mention in that article that "all public sex is quasi-public sex" and I like that.

I don't like that they try and pawn off anti-public sex views as being heteronormative or a product of complacent capitalism or w/e. Maybe it's the case but I don't actually know anybody who is arguing that?

I feel like there are four environments:

1. Places where nudity is discouraged and the atmosphere is non-sexual (the workplace, public transit)
2. Places where nudity is discouraged and the atmosphere is sexual (a bar, the dance floor)
3. Places where nudity is encouraged and the atmosphere is non-sexual (the nude beach, the changeroom)
4. Places where nudity is encouraged and the atmosphere is sexual (the bathhouse)

For me, it does feel like a violation of consent when these lines are blurred. I don't want to suddenly find myself in a sexual environment without agreeing to be in that environment! This doesn't feel like surveillance or capitalism or whatever... to me, suddenly being exposed to "people fucking" in an environment where fucking is not encouraged feels about as cool and OK as a stranger exposing themselves to me on a subway

I'm pretty sure I've had all my public sex in "expected" environments.

fgti, I get yr point. But I also think that in many communities, there's still a lot of stigma around homosexuality, so much so that "public sex," even if it is hidden or obscured, is among the only safe ways for people to get off. I think of the cruising that happens among mostly Black and Latino men in Buena Vista Park in SF, for example.

That said, I personally believe that if yr in the Folsom Gulch area of that same city, don't be all shocked if you see some dudes sucking dicks in an alley or on a stoop. And don't go to the Powerhouse or the Hole in the Wall lol.

Most of the instances of public sex I've participated in have been in queer cruising bars, BDSM festivals, and in the woods.

Oh no, for sure. There are some sexy bushes by the nude beach in Toronto and it's like... that's the place where the bushes are sexy! Be warned.

ditto the Central Park Ramble (at least 20 years ago)

just don't scare the birdwatchers

oh shit y'all I forgot to hype this but my boyfriend's film festival is all online this year and can be streamed from anywhere in the US, and like yeah I'm his bf and wanna promote his shit and all but I've been poking around the lineup and it is an embarrassment of riches, there is an absurd amount of awesome-looking shit

https://www.wickedqueer.org/festival

Very cool

My ex from a decade ago, with whom I remain amicably but distantly intimate, is calling again. Ostensibly he wants us to "walk" together; I suspect he wants to fuck. It's been four months. I'd like to as a pipe-clearing exercise but, gad, dunno if I want THIS again (THIS meaning the throwback gesture; I'm sure he's been a hermit).

we don't get many opportunities now

Seriously
I have a friend down the block who is great and all but
UGG I’m getting back on Grindr now and I’m not looking forward to it

Question: what is a good thread to ask about how to be a good parent to an LGBTQ teenager?

If it is not this one, I will go to a different one; if a thread needs to be created I can do so. Thanks.

Hi! I’m sure there are some good parenting threads out there, I don’t know which ones would apply but others may be able to weigh in. That said, we used to all be teenagers with parents so feel free to put any questions or thoughts here ♥️

I just miss cock

honestly would love to have the experience of being a good parent to an LGBTQ teenager

rather than men, yes xp

I understand my friend

I had changed my name to Doggie on Grindr and I think people think it means the sexual position but that’s not how it was intended, but now I don’t feel like changing it because it always takes me a minute to come up with a new name

I think teenagers need to be loved unreservedly and to feel support for their choices, even if they are wrong. They'll figure it out eventually

so do doggies

Ok. When my daughter was 12 she came out as bisexual. A couple months later she indicated that she was lesbian / biromantic. She turned 13 last month. She's indicated that she now identifies as enby. At each step we've just told her that we're supportive no matter what.

Not a lot has changed in our daily lives. She's had some strictly online and chat-based relationships, as far as we know. But nobody is going anywhere or seeing anybody these days. So a lot of this is pretty theoretical.

The most prominent thing is that she wants to go by a different name. Her birth name is something like Ruby, and she's asked to be called something like Skyler instead. Letting go of her given name (which was carefully chosen) was weird, but we're adjusting. There's no pronoun change requested at this time. She's requested a slightly more neutral wardrobe.

The timing is wwird. Of course we're taking her choices seriously, but we also wish she had the ability to move among her peers more, and to experience relationships and dating and sexuality in a more three-dimensional way than is possible now.

I don't even have a specific question in mind. It's just one of the many things we're going through as a family.

That sounds like a lot of big changes for all of you. And especially now. It seems like you’re being super supportive, which is not the given you’d think it would be. So grading on a curve you’re doing great! I remember when I was in high school and I came out to my family, what I wanted most was to be believed. To be given the confidence that I knew what I wanted, that I knew who I was, even if they couldn’t fully understand. And not to sound totally cliché, but it seems like as much communication, trust and safe space as possible is super important. Navigating romance or any other kind of social connection right now is insane. but i will say that even tho there are ***plenty*** of obstacles and injustices for young people today when it comes to gender and sexuality, looking back on my time in the sun (jfc who am i), I can safely say that there are so many more ideas and people out there that will help your daughter more than there used to be.

And I should’ve prefaced this by saying that I don’t have any parenting experience so I hope you will take my words with a grain of salt. Maybe a spoon of salt.

Hi YMP. I mostly lurk on these threads, but I thought you might appreciate an AFAB perspective. (One thing to keep in mind is that AFAB and AMAB queer experiences are not always perfect analogues or mirror images of one another! Context matters.) I am not a parent, but I have been a 13 year old with a complicated identity (though I had no language back then, for what I was!) Also in the weird position of being friends both with parents my own age raising kids who are turning out to be queer, and hvaing online "fairy godparent" type friendships with young queers in their teens. A couple of suggestions, please disregard if this is stuff you are already doing, but I just thought I'd put it out there.

1) Do research on your own. Learn the language, get a grip of the vocab before it becomes necessary. There's tons of resources out there online. Learn yourself what newer words like "biromantic" or "aromantic" mean. Learn all the different gradations of enby and nonbinary - genderqueer, genderfluid, bigender, agender, etc. Yes, when your child comes out as X, Y or Z, it's good to have the conversation of "OK, do you want to tell me what that means to *you*" - but not having to do a ground-up explainer of common terms is such a relief. It shows respect and caring to learn the stuff.

2) Non-Physical does not mean "Theoretical". I understand why you made the word choice you did (lockdown is particularly brutal for queers of all ages, coming out in the middle of lockdown has got to be a headfuck!) but "Theoretical" has an unintended connotation of "not valid". "Valid" is a really important word for younger queers. Non-physical stuff is valid. Online stuff is valid. You can know you're queer without ever having seen, let alone touched a genital. We are forced to prove the validity of our desires and identities in a way that cis-hets never are. It's not theoretical. It's real and valid. (Also... my experience of people under 20 - they have no concept of 'online' and 'IRL' being separate realities? They are different modes, different rooms in the same house. Stuff that happens online can be as Real as stuff that happens in a room.) Please really, really think through using words like "Theoretical" around your child, because non-valid is the worst thing you can say to a queer child.

3) For many, many AFAB queers, Fluidity *is* the place of queerness. I think this is one of the major differences between AFAB and AMAB queerness, in that for many AMABs, 'coming out' happens as a realisation "Oh, I like boys, I'm gay" and that's pretty much it. For many AFABs, it's a much more mutable, situational, person-based, attraction-based... flow. That is normal. "Lesbian? Bisexual? Heteroflexible? Nonbinary? Wait, no, trans man who digs women but that doesn't make me straight?" This kind of... flexibility of labelling, and travelling through many different experiences is often painted as being somehow inauthentic, or phase-like, rather than the One True Authentic Sexuality that The Gays are supposed to experience? Accept change. Accept fluidity. No snide "oh, that's what we're doing today is it" comments. Just "This is where you are right now, and that's valid!"

4) Acceptance is not just about how you treat your child; it is about how you treat other queer people, and how your child sees you treat or describe or talk about other queer people is 100% the message they will internalise about themselves, no matter what else you say or do. Saying stuff like (just a random example) "Oh, that Miley Cyrus, now she's nonbinary or whatever, what an attention-seeker" is no longer about your feelings about Miley Cyrus, it's about nonbinary identities in general. (This one is dedicated to my own mother, who is 100% supportive of me and my identity, and yet cannot encounter lesbians or trans men without telling me all about how weird and wrong and 'not for her' that whole business is.)

OK, I didn't mean for this to become an essay. My entire London-based queer community, fragile as it always was, has completely disappeared with lockdown, so it turns out I have ~feelings~.

^^^ sooo fucking otm, thank you so much for that. sorry if a lot of this is patronizing or parenting 101, but my non-parental 2¢:

the landscape has changed SO much, I mean I know every generation is different from the last but as an older millennial I feel like there's a way bigger gap btwn millennial and gen z than millennial and gen x. so so so much more communication and exchange of information is done via smartphone, and thus new ideas and concepts evolve much more rapidly than when I was 13 like 20 ago, and to you and I this is "different", like we subconsciously hold our 13-yo experience as the "default" and this new thing is "strange" but to them this IS normal and the default. as Branwell said it's impt to remember that this separation of online/IRL or online being "less authentic" is not how 13yos see the world (not to suggest you're doing that, but I think it's an important foundation to have when thinking through and processing all of the other stuff), and even if there was no COVID they still might not be experiencing dating and sexuality IRL the way that we did

I also want to echo Branwell's sentiment of the importance of your actions over your words, in a sense of yes, you can tell your child how much you support them until the cows come home, but the second you let out an involuntary frustrated sigh or eyeroll or make a subtle comment about someone else, it will undo all of that work. My mom did this and it sucked, loved ME but would let things slip in subtle ways that to an adolescent were clear as day. It's a lot of work to have your guard up at all times but it's important to make a concerted effort to do this as much as possible.

As has also been stated, adolescence is obv full of so much emotional hormonal turmoil and so much self-questioning and identity-searching, and in the contemporary age of smartphones and queerness I imagine people are finding identities a lot more unfamiliar to modern parents than ours were to our parents. Even if you feel like it's "too much" or "just a phase" or whatever, it is CRITICAL that you take their ideas seriously and not just nod along like "ok dear", bcz a 13yo will also pick up on feeling blown off or treated dismissively. they need to work through and process this on THEIR own terms. I think it's good to have a mixture of educating yourself with these new concepts and ideas so you're not relying on them to give you this sort of "gen z sexuality 101" stuff, but to also engage and ask questions of like "what does this mean to YOU" or "are there any changes we can make or things we can do to make you feel comfortable", etc

it sounds like you're already doing a lot of this, and it's really rad that you're being so thoughtful about it, I know it will be confusing and frustrating at times but I think you're on the right path.

For many, many AFAB queers, Fluidity *is* the place of queerness. I think this is one of the major differences between AFAB and AMAB queerness, in that for many AMABs, 'coming out' happens as a realisation "Oh, I like boys, I'm gay" and that's pretty much it.

.... what

not that i even love using terms like "afab" and "amab" but my entire experience was characterized by fluidity and i just can't believe you'd type that shit with any seriousness at all

oh wait i actually can believe it because you talk about it a lot

Hi Brad. When I repeatedly write "many" or "some" - this means "a section of". It does not mean "all". If I meant all, I would write something like "everyone, including specifically Brad Nelson".

And if the directionality implied by terms like AFAB and AMAB doesn't matter to you, that's great. But to other people, who found themselves constantly judged against assumptions that were based on only one starting point (not the starting point that they were at) and found themselves excluded based on not meeting those particular standards, the assertion that "difference matters" can be incredibly important.

But, you know... you go off, because that's what you do.

Good luck, Ye Mad Puffin. This is why I don't post on the "Queer" threads, because this is the kind of reaction I get whenever I post here, and I'm really done with it.

don't make these generalizations in your otherwise perfectly fine post and maybe my brain won't start screaming bc i'm encountering nigh terf-y shit in the queer thread

like even if you say "some" it's obviously not true!!!

You are literally calling a trans person a "terf" - just admit you hate AFABs and go home.

I don't know how much more explicitly you can put up a giant fence saying "no AFAB queers on the queer thread" but congratulations, good job. I'm going, enjoy your cock party all up in here.

your hatred of amab queers comes screaming through every post where you fuckin bring it up so imo good riddance

it's almost like it didn't even need to be said!!!!

all the fine young acronyms

Um, thank you all so much for the posts. I don't want to wade too deep into the acrimony but I found much of Branwell's input enlightening.

"Theoretical" has an unintended connotation of "not valid"

This is a good point and I will be mindful of it in future. I *think* my wife and I have done a decent job of listening and communicating that we believe Skyler, that her voice is heard, and that whatever she's doing/not doing is valid in our eyes.

Even if we (privately) weren't quite sure what to think at first, we have been careful to stay away from "inauthentic, or phase-like" language in how we discuss it with her.

Stuff that happens online can be as Real as stuff that happens in a room.

That's something I'm learning! Daughter has long been Extremely Online. It's very different from my experience of adolescence, of course - pre-internet dating and sex were such a large part of my upbringing. I am doing my best to shift gears.

For many, many AFAB queers, Fluidity *is* the place of queerness.

This is a point that I will take to heart (though I am also listening closely to the resulting dialogue). In any case I *hope* we've made it clear that (1) she's being listened to, (2) the way she identifies is validated and embraced, and (3) the fact that it is evolving doesn't change how valid it is.

In the meantime, stuff to navigate:

Her current girlfriend (let's say "Cristina") is a childhood friend. As a result we know Cristina's parents socially (PTA, Girl Scouts, etc.). I don't think Cristina is out to her parents. So we know more about the situation than they do, but we also know it's not our place to tell them. Potentially awkward, but navigable.

We're trusting Skyler to manage her own outness as far as friends and family are concerned (unless she asks us to tell someone). Indeed, she's been pretty savvy about it! Her coming-out conversations have been strategic and granular. For example, she came out as enby to me but asked me to keep it from her mom for a while; then when she announced her name change she asked me to communicate it to her mom. In contrast, she had talked about being bi only to her mother (at first) but talked about being lesbian to both of us at once. I'm committed to trusting her judgment and respecting her wishes here.

She came out pretty casually to her paternal grandmother (my mother); on my side she's got very close cousins who are lesbian so Skyler's intuited that it's an accepting environment.

On the other hand, my wife's family is conservative/Trumpy. No idea how that's going to go - come Christmastime, it will get difficult to avoid, if only because of the name change. I'm sure it will be an... interesting experience. Advice on this is welcome.

yeah sorry for distracting from the greater conversation. <3 ymp, very psyched for skyler's continuing journey