Sufjan Stevens’ Carrie & Lowell

Age of Adz is easily my favorite album of his -- art imitates life after all! Carrie and Lowell comes at a close second

I agree with Dan except that Carrie and Lowell is a masterpiece. I would like to join the crew who love AoA, I've tried quite a few times indeed, but I will keep at it.

Apparently the new one is inspired by Ariana Grande, Janet Jackson, “eighties and early nineties jams” and features “Prophet synthesizers and Tempest drum machines,” according to a press release that was put up by mistake (and almost immediately taken down).

i mean, you're speaking my language there

I feel like "fantastic" or "terrible" are really the two possible outcomes on this one

that pretty much confirms it's closer to adz than anything else he's done before and i couldn't be more excited

I saw the Adz tour here, and the place was very sold out with people that pretty clearly only knew him from Illinois. I'm not even sure the Adz album had come out yet! Anyway, people were generally patient but I could tell they were not really having it. He did a couple Illinois songs for the encore and they all went nuts, then went home.

someone listen to "america" and tell me if it's any good, I have a weird hangup about not wanting to hear closing tracks in advance

hearing reports that it's great and very adz-y

(i have a similar hangup simon but i may check it anyway)

it's adz-y but even more so it's a continuation of the synth-y arrangements from the C&L tour (the live version of "all of me wants all of you" etc.) and it's great

the song is only about 7 minutes long, the rest is an ambient outro so don't expect a mini "impossible soul" or anything

"my rajneesh" has leaked a week early too and it's way adz-ier than "america" and it's even better!

"my rajneesh" is just immense, would have been one of the best tracks on adz

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jn7_JpmhZP0

I love him

okay if that's an outtake then this might be the greatest album ever made

Fantastic song

Both these songs are a triumph of production/mixing... somehow Sufjan/his mixing engineer managed to find the sweet spot where super-saturated arrangements become pastel instead of intrusive/annoying. All his finicky tendencies are rendered gorgeous, these are already my favourite songs of his. The build at 7:00 on "My Rajneesh" with the backwards drums, trombone solo, dive-bomb synths, goddammit, the intensely beautiful ending, I am shaken

i've played 'rajneesh' four times already this morning, it's quite something.

Love both tracks but I understand why he left "My Rajneesh" off the new record since it's so Adz-like and heavily based on "Vesuvius".

i'm guessing it also just didn't fit thematically with whatever he's going for on this album, since it was written during the C&L sessions and fits in with the originally planned Oregon theme for that album.

it's certainly one of the best things he's ever done, probably a top 5 sufjan track for me. it's fascinating how it manages to seamlessly transition from the acoustic first section to the Adz-y synth bombast

My Rajneesh is extraordinary

it really is. i wish it was 10 minutes longer

I'm more excited about America as an album teaser than I would have been with My Rajneesh. I have no idea what the rest of an album featuring America sounds like.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fCdZzsP4U0

this one's a little more underwhelming, very much what i'd expect from sufjan making a synthpop track but nothing to really elevate it to the standard of his best work

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOstc1ZfDN4

this one's much better than "video game". the same style just executed far far better (also with a long instrumental intro)

new album is fine but i don't think it's a masterpiece on the level of his last two. it's a bit too samey for how long it is but i do really like "make me an offer i cannot refuse" and "tell me you love me"

it's very clear why "my rajneesh" wouldn't have fit on the album but it's significantly better than anything on it. even "with my whole heart" from last year is very similar in sound to the album but much stronger and has a little more going on than most of the album

First impression on the new album is that there’s a dissonance between the intended scope and the sound of it. It’s an album of big musical ideas but meager sound palette and production... and I don’t feel it’s an aesthetic choice. It sounds outdated but not on purpose.

he said jam & lewis' production (specifically rhythm nation) was a big influence on this album but i don't really hear that at all, there's none of their energy at all. i'm still enjoying the album but he's capable of so much better, especially when you compare to when he's worked with this sort of sound palette before to much better effect ("i walked", the live version of "all of me wants all of you", "with my whole heart" etc.)

lyrically he's deliberately writing in cliche a lot of the time here but i don't think he's really managed to get anything interesting out of that either which is a shame

full live film here btw

https://vimeo.com/215185438

Surprised by the huge Boards of Canada lift in the middle section of "Die Happy". I wonder if they will take action?

which track does he lift?

I can't put my finger on it yet, it's got a very similar chord sequence and tonal structure to something from the MHTRTC era, I'll do some listening and see if I can figure it out.

idk why but this album is making me laugh a lot rn, love Sufjan but there's something ridiculous about him

It's definitely goofy in parts. (That's a compliment!)

It almost certainly doesn't need to be 80 minutes long, but there's a lot to like here.

I don't mind someone who pokes their head out once every presidential administration making maxed-out albums like this but yes the songs all kinda blend together. I agree that "My Rajneesh" is better than anything on here. also I think Age of Adz accomplishes most of what this one goes for in a more effective way. but its still pretty good

props to Sufjan for (acc to his publicist) snubbing Rick Rubin a few years back. smart man!

nope - got it - the BoC track I hear in "Die Happy" is "'84 Pontiac Dream":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf5NP-WLGTw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDcgYOOSATY

to think i was acting like a believer / when i was just angry and depressed

😪

i hear a similar style to "84 pontiac dream" in "die happy" but i'm not sure it's a direct rip

i think i'd be into this album much more if it were half the length - unlike illinois and age of adz it just doesn't have enough ideas to sustain its very lengthy runtime

yeah "rip" was a bit of a hot take, but it was definitely a surprise

yeah, so far i like it but am a little disappointed. after "my rajneesh" i was expecting him to drop a masterpiece.

it's much more pared down than i expected. it's not at all maximalist like age of adz.

the title track is really magnificent to be honest. there is more here for a listener like me -- someone who loves the confessional side of carrie & lowell, who "relates" to him -- than someone interested in the sonic inventiveness of age of adz

age of adz is my favourite not only musically but lyrically too. there's a few themes that run through that album (difficulties with communication in relationships, the apocalypse, royal robertson, his own health struggles,etc.) that he ties together wonderfully. it's not as explicitly confessional as carrie & lowell but it's the one i 'relate' the most to

on the other hand this one feels unusually impersonal for him a lot of the time

he talks about that in this interview actually:
https://www.thefader.com/2020/09/25/sufjan-stevens-the-ascension-interview-2020-asthmatic-kitty

I was definitely less focused on myself and my person, my story, my narrative. I got rid of all the idioms of narrative folk songwriting. I wanted things to feel more universal and more generic, in a way. I embraced the use of cliches and catchphrases and idioms and colloquialisms. All that stuff started to like become the impetus for the songs, the meanings behind the songs. I kind of wanted to speak to the lowest common denominator. I wanted the songs to keep moving and be simple on the surface and to feel accessible in a way, as much as I'm able to do it because like even at my most poppiest, I'm a far cry from what's being played on the radio right now. That was all really, really intentional.

I don't feel like I'm generally participating in the pop vernacular too much — I feel like I'm kind of outside of that practice, so it felt really exciting to embrace it and make it the central part of the characteristic in terms of the lyric writing. I've been making records for so long and I've been producing so much work and writing so much original music. After a while I got exhausted by sort of my habits and tropes. I felt like I needed to get out of myself.

I also gave myself a license to not have any new ideas. Sometimes I feel like you just need to appropriate an old idea or preexisting one and make it your own. The songwriting was a process of appropriating cliches and commands and catchphrases and building them into a larger, deeper, more meaningful, more philosophical conversation about our world and crisis and politics and love. All that stuff is there, and obviously it's my point of view and my imprint and authorship is all over this because I did everything, but in spite of all that, I wanted to take myself out of it narratively and think more about the listener, the consumer.

i don't think the end result of that was particularly interesting though and it mostly just feels like he's avoiding his strengths as a writer. like, he hasn't really managed to wring any depth out of those sort of cliches as much as he's tried, and they don't have the sort of emotional backing here that's what can make those sort of cliches work in a more pop context. i find it most engaging lyrically when he slips back into a more typically sufjan mode such as on the title track.

I could be approaching this album from entirely the wrong angle, but it seems to me like the production choices here are aiming for and not quite nailing that 'fragile threads of melody float on the surface of a violently churning sea of electronic noise' aesthetic, that was executed so well on Low's past two albums. That said, I'm still feeling my way through, and I find new details to appreciate as I move between different listening environments. Last night in the car, it was the noise gate closing hard to cut off the reverb tails on the "Come on baby give me some sugar" background vox and create this heady fake tremolo effect; then on the speakers at home, the tuned percussion (or tuned percussion synth patch) playing long tumbling lines under the vocal refrain in "America" when it returns around the 5:45 mark.

I still think "My Rajneesh" is a better song than a lot of what made the album, and also has a WAY more interesting arrangement that pairs the post-dubstep air raid siren electronic stuff with the more classically Sufjanesque palette of choral vox, recorder, brass fanfare, glockenspiel ostinatos, etc.

Really digging the Kid A-meets-Double Negative vibe of "Landslide"