Rolling Marvel Cinematic Universe thread (+ a poll: Classic or Dud?)

Daughter and I watched the first Avengers movie last night. Largely holds up! Too much Hawkeye stuff, maybe. I understand he is being introduced in this movie, but he's no Spider-man.

I think next on our list is "Winter Soldier," then "Ultron," then "Civil War." She doesn't like "Iron Man" and I think we'll skip the first two Thor movies. The rest of the more recent ones, and "Guardians," I think she's more up on.

Fun fact: she was so tuned in to the silly anti-feminist backlash to "Captain Marvel" (which she has seen) that I think she assumed it was a remedy to all the sexist earlier Marvel movies. I think she's been pleasantly surprised that they're not.

and I think we'll skip the first two Thor movies.

Fair call.

On the other hand, I remember actually enjoying the second Thor movie!

They're probably both slightly underrated at this point. Skippable but not bad.

I thought the first one was pretty dull, iirc. And Hemsworth hadn't quite gotten a hold of the character yet. Even in the first Avengers movie he's a little stiff, and that's with some good lines.

did Decoder Ring do the soundtrack for that one? could have kept second-hand CD shops alive another year

― an, uh, razor of love (sic), Monday, June 29, 2020 1:48 AM

https://www.discogs.com/Decoder-Ring-Somersault-Original-Motion-Picture-Soundtrack/master/434102

Bought this shortly after I saw the film over a decade ago. So there isn't more soundtracks by them? Never got anything else by them but it's pretty nice.

Their non-soundtrack records are also good.

First time I seen Abbie Cornish too.

OK, we just watched "Winter Soldier." I hadn't seen it since the theaters. I actually remember being underwhelmed by it then, and ... I'm still a little underwhelmed. It has a lot of good stuff it in, but for a series that hinges on suspension of disbelief I maintain the big battle at the end is just a few degrees of ridiculous too far for me and, honestly, a little lazy, too. I can handle underground lairs, but a giant secret multi-helicarrier base under the Potomac? Come on. They could have put that anywhere, even some place remotely plausible, and I know they sort of address this stuff in Civil War, but those things crashing would have taken out thousands of people in the dense DC/VA area.

The end is very Star Wars, I didn't remember that. Super Empire Strikes Back/Return of the Jedi lightsaber finale vibes.

all the action stuff in Winter Soldier was lousy, imo

Lots of flipping around and landing dramatically. But that's par for the course.

i remember a street battle sequence (henchmen shooting down from a bridge?) that was just incoherent, lotta quick editing covering for a fight that wasn't choreographed or storyboarded to really add up to much.

Abbie Cornish (born August 7, 1982), also known by her rap name Dusk

just wanted this noted

The First Avenger was a weird one for me, I knew about the character existing for most of my life but never saw him anywhere at all until the (actual) first avenger movie. When I went back and watched all the mcu films i'd missed in the last few years the first captain america was the most interesting to me because he always seemed like totally corny 1940s hooray america shit and the dude only has a sheild which is dumb but they referenced all that in the film in a way that made me appreciate the character a lot more than I would have imagined. Like i kind of teared up when he picked up thor's hammer in Endgame.

I only watched winter soldier once and have been meaning to again but the elevator fight scene might be my favorite action sequence in any of the films.

Yeah, I'm not gonna rep for the Winter Soldier action sequences across the board but there are several that are very good + memorable, some people itt r nutz

I have trouble keeping the action in that and Civil War straight off the top of my head - the latter had the introduction of Black Panther, right? That was tight, as was the airport fight.

I had forgotten so much about "Age of Ultron" that it was like seeing it for the first time. And ... it's not particularly good. It introduces so many characters and so much stuff, but just does it so poorly, so clumsily, imo. In the end if it feels like little more than a big, long, overly elaborate origin story for Vision, but as far as I can remember they don't really do anything with him in this or later movies. For that matter, Scarlet Witch's powers remain incoherent, Quicksilver is introduced and depicted so much better in the X-Men movies, and as far as powers go across the board, this one I want to say has the toughest time depicting the range and limitations of the various Godlike abilities. Like, sometimes Thor can throw a plane or whatever, other times he's just punching goons. Hulk vs Iron Man fight is great, but they throw in a gag with Hulk ... spitting out a tooth? And I also didn't like the Ultron design - he looked more evil in the comics as a kid, iirc - though I think I enjoyed Spader's voice this time more than the first. Oh, and this is one where the Whedonisms just get in the way. I don't mind the jokey banter in a lot of the other films, because it feels like a nervous affectation to keep their mind off dying or whatever. But in this one it felt particularly obnoxious. Like when the Hydra villain is making witty sitcom quips, or Hawkeye and Black Widow are discussing redecorating his barn while they're battling. It just makes it seem like they don't care, like there's no threat to them or the world. Anyway, pretty clunky and skippable. I almost fell asleep.

"Civil War" is next. I remember liking that one a lot more, and I know for a fact it does a much better job introducing (much better) new characters.

I think the incoherency of Scarlet Witch's powers are a defining characteristic

but as far as I can remember they don't really do anything with him in this or later movies.

Well, he does play a pretty significant part in Infinity War/Endgame!

lol I don't remember! I know they take his gem. But I forget what he has to do with anything else.

"Civil War" held up OK. It helps that it has a bit of gravitas to it (if still, alas, a questionable relationship to literal gravity). Its biggest flaw is its utterly pointless villain, though I suppose in this one specifically the villain is not really the point.

It's a shame (relatively speaking) that they have burned through so many iconic baddies so soon: Red Skull, Ultron, of course Thanos ...I don't know much about many of the upcoming MCU properties, like Eternals or Shang-Chi, and the rest are all sequels, so I can't even hazard a guess who the overarching Big Bad is, if they even have one. There were hopes/rumors of Kree/Skrull, and of course they've stuck with them for a few features, but I don't think those are terribly compelling villains compared to Thanos, or some of the more cosmic stuff. (I say, as a pretty casual fan.) And who knows what they are doing with what is essentially a reboot of Marvel on TV with Loki, Falcon/Winter Soldier, Hawkeye and WandaVision. Those Disney shows I assume will have bigger budgets and greater leeway to encroach or expand on the films than Daredevil, Punisher, Iron Fist, Shield et al did. ( (Is Agents of Shield still on the air?)

It's a shame timing has failed "Fantastic Four." I notice Disney+ now has the Josh Trank version up along with the other Marvel titles (though curiously not any of the co-Sony Spider-man titles), which I can only assume does not bode well for a fresh "FF" feature any time soon, which lowers the likelihood of Dr. Doom, or Galactus or Silver Surfer et al. Though who knows, there was that story of Noah Hawley writing a "Dr. Doom" screenplay and Feige saying no, which can mean anything. Maybe Marvel has no plans, maybe they have plans but for no time soon, maybe they are being sneaky about stuff. Didn't Taika outright deny doing a new Star Wars movie and then later winkingly concede it? These folks are pros.

'so soon' here would be 10 years and 18 films in?

I'm basically now a Marvel agnostic (who ate up the comics in the mid-'90s), but it seems to me they've already blown doing the Fantastic Four. It's such a space age/space race property that--to me anyway--it should be set in the '60s, between Cap 1 and wherever the hell they picked up. However I assume the MCU is established enough that they can't go back and drop in something that major.

xp: In fairness, these characters all existed in the comics for decades

the whole thing about "greatest foes" in serialised stories is that they come back again and again and thereby earn their claim to being mainstays of the rogue's gallery. you could possibly do that in film but it's largely been avoided with the exception of Lex Luthor in the 70s/80s Superman films, and Scarecrow recurring in cameo parts in Nolan's Batman films. it's probably the right call for making the stories feel like complete thoughts with a reason to exist, but it does also often produce a sense that the handling of this or that iconic foe is somehow lacking the requisite larger-than-life, mythic status. Doom has surely been handled the worst, the most times, but also he might be sort of impossible to really sell as a one-movie villain.

xpost That's sort of what I mean. Characters or villains that existed for decades in the comics wiped out or negated by one two and a half hour movie.

and xpost again They actually did a pretty good job having Thanos loom over several films, even if he was only the explicit villain of a couple.

Doom would probably actually do well as a future villain as lead in his own standalone movie / origin story.

A new MCU-based FF movie has been all but confirmed, btw. A ways down the line (alongside an X-Men revamp, presumably) but on the way nonetheless.

I mean, Loki's been the villian in two and half films already!

I know it's a DC property but is anyone watching Doom Patrol? I noticed it in HBO Max and I wasn't familiar with it at all. Is it a Teen Titans thing?

It's loosely connected to Teen Titans in both the televisual and comic book versions but only loosely. It's absolutely the most OTT weird superhero adaptation I've seen (which is true to the Grant Morrison iteration of the comics, although the show doesn't quite reach those heights). NB, I still haven't seen Legion, which is supposed to be totes bizarre.

(Also please note that if you enjoy legitimately weird arts + entertainment that I acknowledge that a super-weird Big Two superhero adaptation is only ever going to scratch the surface of true and legit weirdness.)

Legion S1 is AMAZING

Legion gets very tiresome very quickly (albeit in a totally distinct way from MCU things)

lol I forgot they killed Loki, too. "Killed," because of course that's never stopped any hand wavy "arise!" magic or science or back from the void or whatever.

C'mon, man. The current Loki is the Loki of an alternate reality. It's cut and dried, very simple and grounded and real.

Is it a Teen Titans thing?

http://www.tcj.com/the-wreckage-part-one/

i assume we would already have Kid Loki in the MCU if Tom Hiddleston wasn't so endlessly shippable

be shocked if we don't get some variation of that in the TV series

for those of you who watch the movies but gave up on the modern comics, I can STRONGLY recommend Jason Aaron's outrageously good, near-decade long run on Thor. It's great reading!
https://www.cbr.com/jason-arron-changes-thor-marvel-comic/
https://www.howtolovecomics.com/2019/06/16/jason-aaron-thor-reading-order/

Yeah, it's one of the few recent Marvel things (along with Hickman's Avengers run) that I've read multiple times over.

he's been so dang consistent

If you've got a choice between that and Gillen's Loki-and-pals runs, I'd take the latter, though.

Legion's second season goes all over the place - if you can stand it (and there's a lot of good in there) the third is amazing.

Is it a Teen Titans thing?

the first real revival of the characters was in a teen titans storyline

further for polyphonic: Doom Patrol predate Teen Titans by a few months (1963 vs 1964); the third major Teen Titans version/revival, 1980's New Teen Titans, included a minor Doom Patrol character as a member (which led to the team's resurrection, and eventually the resurrection of most of its dead members); the Doom Patrol TV show for some reason includes the 1980 NTT character Cyborg as well as the Doom Patrol's cyborg mainstay Robotman.

This is also a dece summary of the parallels between Doom Patrol and X-Men:

https://nerdist.com/article/doom-patrol-x-men-parallel-history/

Yeah, Cyborg threw me off. Although to be honest I assumed the show was about Doctor Doom at first. I don't know comics too well.

the robotman tv show face is very doc doom-ish

Watching Into the Spider-Verse again (yes, I know it’s not an MCU movie, but if we’re talking Doom Patrol...). Still get tripped up by the following plot holes(?), which come up in the same scene:

1. Why doesn’t Peter B. Parker react, at all, to meeting a young version of Gwen Stacey, alive and well? Even though he knows she’s from an alt universe, you’d think he would have some feels about the encounter.

2. If Spider-Gwen arrived in the Miles-verse a week before everything went down – before Miles even got his powers – how did her spider-sense know to direct her to go to his school? How did she enroll, get a uniform, etc.? Where has she been living for a week?

Great movie, tho!

(Gwen also doesn’t seem to have any emotional response to working with a grown-up version of her deceased best friend; but I guess she’s had a little time to get used to the idea of multiple Peter Parkers.)