There are alternatives if you don't live in England, to be fair.
― Future England Captain (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 June 2020 17:55 (three years ago) link
The SNP and the mainstream nationalist political culture are also pure shite but
― Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:00 (three years ago) link
unless you meant voting for the shinners in the 6 counties
a thing I saw on twitter the other day wrt BLM protests in Glasgow - a nationalist saying that people should take their saltires and make it an indy reunion. kind of encapsulates the ideology of the indy movement in 2020
― Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:01 (three years ago) link
Oh I know that but it's a moot point because no-one's voting Labour in Scotland anyway.
― Future England Captain (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:04 (three years ago) link
god the "labour together" report's appendix on Scotland (which appears to be from 2018 for some reason) was some dire reading:
1 in 4 labour voters in Scotland in 2015 voted for the tories in 2017, and 48% of labour voters in Scotland thought Ruth Davidson was doing a good job as party leader
― Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:22 (three years ago) link
1 in 4 labour voters in Scotland in 2015 voted for the tories in 2017,
They're all over Facebook, my sister seems to know lots of them and I just this minute got into a barney with about five of them on Facebook because my sister posted a story on half a million people being on the beach at Bournemouth which had a headline blaming 'Boris the Buffoon'.
― Future England Captain (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:44 (three years ago) link
is that just from pure former Labour Yoons/Brexiteers?
― never mind that shit, here comes scampo (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:50 (three years ago) link
they're all No voters but not all of them are Brexiteers
― Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link
yeah sorry i meant either/or
― never mind that shit, here comes scampo (Noodle Vague), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link
Unionists. Most of them are probably Brexiteers too, just to annoy everyone else.
― Future England Captain (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 June 2020 18:56 (three years ago) link
You see, the Labour Party's on a hiding to nothing in Scotland, I've got left wing pro-independence friends on FB now talking about Starmer being Blair Mk. 2 and it's all Red Tory this Red Tory that.
― Future England Captain (Tom D.), Thursday, 25 June 2020 19:37 (three years ago) link
The Scottish appendix noted that while voters Labour lost in Scotland to the SNP liked Corbyn and thought he was an improvement it didn't make many of them revert to voting Labour, whereas he turned off the older unionist voters
― Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Thursday, 25 June 2020 19:42 (three years ago) link
lads i'm disquieted, indulge me
― imago, Friday, 26 June 2020 09:47 (three years ago) link
Labour gained Scottish MPs in 2017.
― santa clause four (suzy), Friday, 26 June 2020 09:50 (three years ago) link
Yes,with a gain of 9,860 votes from their modern nadir
― Rik Waller-Bridge (jim in vancouver), Friday, 26 June 2020 09:57 (three years ago) link
7 seats out of 59, promptly losing 6 of them in 2019. What's even worse is that the sole remaining Scottish Labour MP, the face and big ba'heid of Labour in Scotland is Ian Fucking Murray.
― Future England Captain (Tom D.), Friday, 26 June 2020 10:01 (three years ago) link
to be clear about my disquiet, i am disquieted at having quit labour when my red line - RLB being sacked over fuck-all - appears to have been more a case of RLB being sacked for refusing to comply with a silly but simple request to delete a tweet
like, KS is clearly a man with deeply compromised priorities and there have been plenty of potential red lines before this that i've swanned nervously by, but.....idk. have i just tapped out of relevant political membership? ugh
― imago, Friday, 26 June 2020 10:18 (three years ago) link
if he is going to run a tight ship with ruthless discipline he might want have a word with that lad in his shadow cabinet with the history of putting out hate pamphlets about travellers, an historical offence but he should be put on notice.. no forget it, Starmer is a tory cop wanker who is all there for landowners and landlord rights
― calzino, Friday, 26 June 2020 10:21 (three years ago) link
"to be clear about my disquiet"
People are dying Louie, nobody cares.
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 26 June 2020 11:18 (three years ago) link
quite right, let's take ILX offline until the virus goes away
― imago, Friday, 26 June 2020 11:19 (three years ago) link
"people are dying" is obvious a semi-decent reason for why KS didn't have to bat an eyelid over this nonsense, but alas, people dying is rarely enough of a cause for focus
― imago, Friday, 26 June 2020 11:20 (three years ago) link
Lol.
Anyway thought this was a good quit don't quit reflection.
I've said this before, but maybe worth restating, "Stay & Fight" is a fantasy position that doesn't recognise how badly the left have lost.— Tom Gann (@Tom_Gann) June 25, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 26 June 2020 11:22 (three years ago) link
If you see Labour as a "platform" to express yourself it will inevitably disappoint. If you see it as an instrumental "gateway" to inducting yourself into a movement you can work with others to change it and it will also inevitably change you and others too— Charlie Mansell (@charliemansell) June 26, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 26 June 2020 12:31 (three years ago) link
This is better than joining the Greens.
I've cancelled my Labour Party membership, and am splitting the money between Community Action on Prison Expansion (@CAPExpansion) and the National Mikey Powell Memorial Family Fund (@fund_memorial) for families affected by custody deaths.https://t.co/vqQdbIxNJT— Dr Harry Josephine (@HarryJosieGiles) June 29, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Monday, 29 June 2020 22:57 (three years ago) link
Great you posted this. People simply would not believe you today if you said Michael Foot had Labour polling at 56%, had 24-point poll leads & pushed Thatcher down to 28% (then the Labour Right wrecked and more importantly an actual war changed everything)https://t.co/upZMcr3WJ2— Stephen Smith (@SteveNickSmith) June 29, 2020
― calzino, Monday, 29 June 2020 23:35 (three years ago) link
lol, an FT journalist speaking truth to power.
― calzino, Tuesday, 30 June 2020 00:08 (three years ago) link
On the momentum elections:
1. POH section is a disgrace, should be abolished or democratised2. Three people who refused to sign the @Labour_Trans pledges is three people too many3. There needs to be structural work to address problems with representation (and FM could've done better on this) https://t.co/mt8LOOcqvq— Dan (@d_j_frost) July 1, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 1 July 2020 11:11 (three years ago) link
Lol @ Tory journo Oborne looking at the Lab report:
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/were-labours-antisemitism-failures-really-corbyns-fault/
(Of course it's mainly a question of journalistic integrity for him, but still..)
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 1 July 2020 11:16 (three years ago) link
That the traditional media has failed, almost entirely, to report these suspensions and the ongoing legal proceedings is, to say the least, odd. It has also largely failed to report the contents of the leaked report. Newspapers and broadcasters have no interest in publicising a document that asks serious questions about the narrative they pushed so unquestioningly regarding Corbyn and antisemitism.
This is cowardly and irresponsible. Either they need to show that the Labour report is wrong – or they owe Jeremy Corbyn , Jennie Formby and others an apology. They at least have an obligation to report the other side of the argument.
oh, obornepaws...
― specific fry such as scampo (||||||||), Wednesday, 1 July 2020 13:17 (three years ago) link
It's rarely mentioned that the Tories missed out on a working majority by just 50 votes, or that those specific 2,227 votes would have required a national gain of around 116,000. This is a good @anthonybmasters analysis of the myth of Labour's near miss.https://t.co/17iDcgILd0 https://t.co/dkv5e5iBJJ— Dorian Lynskey (@Dorianlynskey) August 9, 2020
This could be the thread for arguing over history. We can argue the toss over numbers. I think it's worth saying how many people voted for this very dysfunctional unit and maybe how many more could've done so.
They would not have gotten much through but again. An anti-imperialist in No 10. No arms to Saudi. Abbott as home sec. The emboldening of the left. This argument over numbers and what could or could not be done misses what is basic to me.
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:22 (three years ago) link
how's his Remain podcast with Dunty going? Has it run it's course now Corbyn isn't there to kick anymore. Fucking melt jerkoff!
― calzino, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:32 (three years ago) link
It’s rarely mentioned that every time I see a Dorian Lynskey tweet, it’s because he’s getting #numbers due to some dogshit Labour opinion rather than whatever it is he actually enjoys.
― let them microwave their rice (gyac), Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:33 (three years ago) link
By the way, Labour’s numbers increased in the weeks after 2017, and were strong and around 40% for much of the following year and a half. The more voters in 2017 thought Labour would win, the more likely they were to vote for them. This is all out there and established by the polls themselves and by the British Election Study.
― let them microwave their rice (gyac), Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:35 (three years ago) link
If he wanted to go back over numbers he might want to consider the national gain required for Remain to win. And how Leave missed out on a working majority by a negative number.
― anvil, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:36 (three years ago) link
Even in that optimistic scenario it's very difficult to imagine how a Corbyn minority government would have survived for very long - particularly trying to get Brexit legislation through the Commons and with Labour MPs sending blood in the water. Even a confidence and supply agreement with the SNP would have crashed on the Brexit rocks surely?
They might have won in early 2018 when they were polling level with the Tories though.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:38 (three years ago) link
If he wanted to go back over numbers he might consider how Labour’s numbers tanked the less ambiguous they were about committing to a Remain position.
― let them microwave their rice (gyac), Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:38 (three years ago) link
Lynskey is correct it's important to be realistic about the outcome of General Elections, referendums, that kind of thing
― The Scampos of Young Werther (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:38 (three years ago) link
steady on!
― anvil, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:39 (three years ago) link
just addressing the myth of Remain's near miss
― The Scampos of Young Werther (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:41 (three years ago) link
xp I think all the wreckers would have resigned as soon as they could, but then he should have purged them ASAP. No sense in letting people like Ian Austin and John Woodcock call themselves Labour MPs any longer than necessary. But once you get into the messy realpolitik scenario of a coalition like that, it’s difficult to know what would have happened. Certainly if they emerged from the election the largest party we wouldn’t be on course for a no deal exit at the end of the year. What Alphie says above is true, and 2017 was the thing that made people take Corbyn seriously and view him as a real threat. What fools like DL think is neither here nor there tbh.
― let them microwave their rice (gyac), Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:42 (three years ago) link
maybe he could do a thread about how Remainers made the Johnson government
― The Scampos of Young Werther (Noodle Vague), Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:46 (three years ago) link
I can't wait to dig into his mate's How To Be a Liberal book, might just cut straight to the "overlook the results of democratic votes/referendums and cry like a fucking baby for 3 years" chapter and see if I can learn something important about how to have the dignified poise of a great classic liberal!
― calzino, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:49 (three years ago) link
Yes this discussion from people like Owen Jones and Zara Sultana isn't really about what would have happened it's about countering the idea of unelectability. Even if Labour MPs weren't taking the prospect seriously the Tories clearly were. If they weren't genuinely shook they wouldn't have gone for Johnson - although they were also clearly concerned about Brexit slipping through their fingers.
― Matt DC, Sunday, 9 August 2020 11:52 (three years ago) link
Had the campaign gone on a week longer, Labour may well have wound up at least in government, and possibly won outright. I base this on the phenomenon of people jumping on the ‘winner’ bandwagon when they can see it coming.
― santa clause four (suzy), Sunday, 9 August 2020 14:19 (three years ago) link
Just noting how Bush was quite smart, he would turn up as a reply guy in all sorts of threads with pro-Corbyn people, talk to them, act curious. Most were probably sceptical but because he was courteous it was fine. Something the rest of the media didn't do - and I do wonder if there was better analysis whether they would've seen the threat from Corbyn earlier or not.
Frankly, Stephen Bush is now deliberately being ridiculous.The claim of deliberate sabotage doesnt need comparison with a different campaign, only that1. We're they told to distribute more ambitiously2. Did theyThat's it. pic.twitter.com/CiIvHvduRp— left of Brown (@TKispeter) August 11, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 11 August 2020 12:47 (three years ago) link
"Corbyn's arrogant tour of Conservative-held seats"
Is he writing from the pov of the Corbyn sceptic or just himself or are they one and the same
― nashwan, Tuesday, 11 August 2020 12:55 (three years ago) link
I thought Labour were supposed to be speaking to people they disagreed with? Anyway the leaked report alleged a whole shadow campaign in 2017 where resources were diverted so Bush can fuck off.
― let them microwave their rice (gyac), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 12:58 (three years ago) link
I immediately bin any commentator who calls Corbyn ‘arrogant’ because it transparently means ‘is not doing the thing I would like him to do, because he ignores melts like me, and I keep trying to speak to a manager’.
― santa clause four (suzy), Tuesday, 11 August 2020 12:59 (three years ago) link
it's entirely possible that 2017 was somewhat sabotaged by reluctant corbz-hostile lab operatives and 2019 was badly run by keen lab operatives loyal to corbz
― mark s, Tuesday, 11 August 2020 13:08 (three years ago) link