Abolish the Police

Today in Charlotte cops arrested people who were providing support to protesters who were released from jail. Adding this to the list of reasons to #DefundThePolice. pic.twitter.com/xXyBgLHUPR

— nyc law grrrl (@nyclawgrrrl) June 19, 2020

Heard yesterdfay that there are police in a lot of schools in Scotland thanks to the way that a fund that was supposed to be helping with poverty etc was handled.

Also that at least one school in Richmond California managed to get rid of SROs in their school or at least the process is underway.

Thanks for posting that xyz. I got lost in the story and looking up more about it, and by the time posted about it on the police brutality thread I forgot that I saw it on ILX first.

So fucked up, attacking the people who are there to do the work that the state refuses to do

ACAB

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/jun/25/two-met-police-officers-arrested-over-photo-of-murdered-sisters

Let's face it though, how many countless times has this happened in the past?

KL - no worries.

Seeing how these protests (however brutal for the participants) are having a positive impact (on policy and some of the primaries) is a wonderful thing to see.

Warning, shit is vile:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/06/25/wilmington-racist-police-recording/

Don't know the city, but a video is circulating on FB of a line of cops unloading their guns on a seated homeless guy. I didn't have the stomach for the audio.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/kelowna-rcmp-surveillance-video-wellness-check-lawsuit-1.5623215

abolish the RCMP

thought that said abolish the RHCP at first and was about to otm you

why not both?

272 uniformed NYPD cops have filed for retirement from the day of #GeorgeFloyd’s death to June 25. That’s 49% more than retired this time last year.

In other words, protesters will lower the NYPD headcount before Mayor de Blasio or the NYC Council does. https://t.co/1lVnbRGWCB

— Ash J (@AshAgony) June 27, 2020

Don't know the city, but a video is circulating on FB of a line of cops unloading their guns on a seated homeless guy. I didn't have the stomach for the audio.

― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), T

I don't have FB, but I think this is Albuquerque and possibly two years ago iirc. Though of course, its entirely likely you're talking about a different broad daylight filmed execution

so has Minneapolis abolished the police?

https://www.npr.org/sections/live-updates-protests-for-racial-justice/2020/06/26/884149659/minneapolis-council-moves-to-defund-police-establish-holistic-public-safety-forc

they voted to take steps towards putting a measure on the ballot that would amend the city charter to replace the fuzz. I have no idea if it'll pass, but I'm eager to vote for it.

can we abolish both cops and anarchists

https://www.thestranger.com/slog/2020/06/30/44008034/we-must-end-the-conditions-in-chop-that-are-leading-to-violence-and-death

https://www.thecut.com/2020/06/protesters-say-aurora-pd-used-force-at-elijah-mcclain-vigil.html

URL is misleading, Aurora PD definitely used force

pic.twitter.com/IMhLkrIGrc

— Noname (@noname) July 2, 2020

love it

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/how-i-became-police-abolitionist/613540/

That's a compelling piece. I think the question I have is: why isn't the movement to fix the things that make the police necessary instead of to focus on abolishing the police? I don't need to abolish the police in my neighborhood, because they aren't a problem in my neighborhood, because my neighborhood has the resources it needs to begin with - I don't live down the street from a chemical plant, there are job opportunities for people like me, our housing isn't crumbling, we have access to groceries, etc.

I know the movement answer, because it gets repeated ad nasueum: take all the money from police budgets and fund the other stuff. But there isn't *anywhere close* to enough money in police budgets to fund all the other stuff that you would need to make the police superfluous. Even Alex Vitale acknowledges this. Police are a woefully inadequate and at times harmful means of controlling the damage from racial and class inequality, but they are not the primary cause of the racial and class inequality imo.

yeah unfortunately we gotta defund the military too

"abolish capitalism" a bit more of a stretch goal imo

why isn't the movement to fix the things that make the police necessary instead of to focus on abolishing the police? I don't need to abolish the police in my neighborhood, because they aren't a problem in my neighborhood

because police are just the society-facing side of the larger incarceration system, which is racist by design. in poor black neighborhoods, police routinely drive in and search all the young black men. it's routine - the people often just raise their arms and surrender as soon as the cops show up, because they know what's about to happen. of course you don't see it from that angle - police aren't a problem in your neighborhood

my whole point is that police aren't a problem in my neighborhood *because* my neighborhood has resources, is not poor, etc.

Because it's almost as though police don't cause poverty, they are just there to manage it

I mean, South Africa has underfunded police and high poverty. The result is that there's a booming private security industry, which is probably even less accountable than police.

it's almost like there are dozens of things that need to be abolished or at least fundamentally rethought and this is the one people are talking about because there's urgency and movement behind it specifically

is anyone proposing "abolish the police but explicitly do not change anything else"

my whole point is that police aren't a problem in my neighborhood *because* my neighborhood has resources, is not poor, etc.

and my point is that "abolish the police" is not about your neighborhood. because your neighborhood has resources, and is not poor, etc.

the daily reality for so many people is getting hassled by the police and entering the incarceration system by their early 20s, then losing their civic rights and being at a disadvantage for the rest of their lives.

it is possible to defund/abolish the police and immediately address the problems that are *caused* by the police, and simultaneously try to address the much longer-term problems of poverty (partly _caused_ by the police - not in your neighborhood, i agree, but in many other neighborhoods) at the same time

Because it's almost as though police don't cause poverty, they are just there to manage it

the whole tone of this makes it clear that you're not talking about the same police

they should really have different names. there are cops for white people and then cops for everyone else. they serve different purposes.

that's why the "national conversation" goes nowhere. people aren't even talking about the same things, and white people (generally) still don't believe in the idea of racist cops who make hassling poc a part of their daily routine

'abolishing the police wouldn't fix the things that make the police necessary, the money from the police wouldn't be enough to fix the things that the police make necessary, therefore…'

man alive, what do you think the conclusion to your argument is?

"abolish capitalism" a bit more of a stretch goal imo

defund capitalism

my man

Also, while police are not the root or primary cause of poverty, the carceral system they belong to--including bail, asset seizures, the inescapable cascading of fines, prisoners being paid pennies, and as Karl noted incarceration's lifelong negative effects on employment--does cause or at least maintain poverty for many individuals

'abolishing the police wouldn't fix the things that make the police necessary, the money from the police wouldn't be enough to fix the things that the police make necessary, therefore…'

man alive, what do you think the conclusion to your argument is?

― j., Monday, 6 July 2020 17:31 (ten minutes ago) link

That the priority should be to fund the things that make the police less necessary, which also happen to be politically popular, rather than focusing on abolishing the police, which is politically unpopular and will not address the underlying problems that police are there to brutally and hamfistedly try to manage (fwiw I 100% agree with rob -- but those things are addressed by ending bail, ending asset seizures, ending cascading fines, ending prisoners being paid pennies, and reducing incarceration, none of which actually require *abolishing* the police).

strenuous advocacy for unpopular things both makes them more popular over time and provides cover for more popular things to happen, also the police should be abolished.

We're just posting after all, not prioritizing. Let bureaucrats and legislatures prioritize.

that's why the "national conversation" goes nowhere. people aren't even talking about the same things, and white people (generally) still don't believe in the idea of racist cops who make hassling poc a part of their daily routine

― time is running out to pitch in $5 (Karl Malone), Monday, July 6, 2020 1:24 PM (forty-four minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

re: the latter -- evidence suggests a lot more of them do now!

yep! hopefully that will continue. but still, i think when white people think of police the dominant narrative is still a norman rockwell painting version

man alive, what about all of the problems that police CAUSE? and by “problems” i mean murder and life-altering harrassment? do we just need to wait on that until we get to the other things on your list?

the police in well-off neighborhoods are not different people. they just happen to have their posts there. they aren't a problem for the residents, or the people they perceive to be residents, but they are a problem for "outsiders" because they are meant to keep those people out. they do plenty of bad stuff when you aren't looking.

For whatever it is that replaces the police, I prefer the name Meatspace Moderators to Community Care Workers.

man alive's Municipal Bouncers is still one of my favorite ideas

regarding high schools, this is an interesting short read: the perspective of a student on going to a school full of police, metal detectors, and further security/control/surveillance protocols. not a substitute for reading up on the school-to-prison pipeline etc., but valuable IMO.

There are maybe 30 School Safety Agents in the campus, for about 1,000 students. In the middle of periods, when people are switching, all you hear is, “Go to class, go to class, go to class.” You go through the scan, and it’s like, “Take your belt off, take your keys out your pocket.” This is what I had to experience when I went to visit my cousin in jail. I shouldn’t be experiencing this here. It’s just a very prison-like feeling when you’re in school.

I’m the community engagement organizer here at the Rockaway Youth Task Force. Last week I was putting up flyers around school for a meeting on Monday. I got permission, and scissors and tape from my assistant principal because she saw the flyers, she knew I was going to put them up. Next thing I know the School Safety Agent just starts yelling, “Where did you get those scissors from? Give me those scissors.” And I’m like, “Seriously? You’re seeing me use them.” He’s like, “You need to give them to me.” I’m like, “No, I’m not even halfway done, you’re not going to take them.” And he’s like, “Who gave them to you? Who gave them to you? Oh, you shouldn’t have those, you shouldn’t be carrying them like that. Put them into your bag, I don’t want to see them.”

I didn’t want to go back into the classroom yet because I knew this was going to end badly and I wanted to be a witness. I was fine. I was safe. No one was touching me, they were just fighting with each other. Another boy escaped and started fighting someone else and that’s when my Assistant Principal and Dean — who are both white males, who don’t live in this community — were like, “OK, you know what. I’m tired of this. Call the precinct. They’re getting arrested.” At that point, my teacher literally dragged me into the class. I remember hearing my Assistant Principal say, “Anyone who’s still out here, you’re going to get arrested too.” I started just ranting, “Had this been CJ and Mike,” the two white kids in my class, “they would have just been put in separate rooms. But because it’s them, 30 seconds later there’s five cops walking down, holding their guns, ready to cuff them.” That’s institutional racism, that shouldn’t be happening in our school. You shouldn’t be arrested, you shouldn’t be seeing police. You shouldn’t go through metal detectors when you’re in school, which is an environment where you’re supposed to learn and feel safe and supported.

thanks for that, passing on to my partner who works in a somewhat more sane but still empty charter school