Joni Mitchell: Classic or Dud

I can’t get on board with “blackface to sort the trve kvlt fans from the casuals” as a defence. Even “Furry Sings the Blues” leaves me uncomfortable.

I really want to think the best of Joni - she is a towering genius to me, one of the pantheon - and so I've tried to understand the motivation. Best I can do is that she realised that her music had outgrown its previous forms and that she needed to engage with jazz to grow as an artist. Perhaps the blackface is an expression of a desire to assimilate and acknowledge that jazz is a Black music form, rather than being just a ghost-white folkie interloper. Mingus seems a clear desire to acknowledge the great man rather than stand on the shoulders of his art. Plus 70s, cocaine, self-belief. It's not great but it's the most charitable take I can muster. By which I don't mean that I agree with it or find the behaviour any less questionable.

fwiw The Jungle Line always made be uncomfortable as well, but I thought maybe there was some nuance to it I wasn't getting

Me too, along with the men carrying the anaconda on the cover as a counterpoint to the genteel suburbs.

this is so much more complicated than a defense - there's no defense! the only sane response to the cover is 'what were you thinking' and after reading the interview where she tells you, the only response is to yell the same thing louder -- actually I probably just yelled. I'm like stuck trying to get at why myself + so many of my friends pretty dedicated to studying the history of american music & personally invested in these issues, for whom the last few weeks have seen progress we couldn't have even imagined as kids, felt close to this record in particular.

now, when the whole point of social media surfacing 80s/90s yearbook shots of politicians & CEOs at last year's halloween party is to make it clear this noise never stopped, and all these Joni pictures have to be seen through the same lens now - I do apologize for complaining about context collapse when it's just as well to call it focus. I'm still mad at those reviews though! there was too much in the design of these albums that had to be overlooked for people to feel safe in criticizing the uncomfortable things about them. if you had taken the (sizable) leap of faith that you were uncomfortable about the same things, then you were fine with a record which made you uncomfortable. I mean I'm less uncomfortable the last three weeks I've been in a long time, more comfortable than the three times it took before I could even make it through the first song on Mingus

There's no "defence" here, just trying to understand how a person with such wonderful qualities elsewhere could make this kind of blunder, and what it really says about her. I guess there is also a kind of boomer entitlement that during the 60s and 70s, they'd "settled" questions of racism and feminism and righted all the wrongs, so were "above the law" on such issues.

I understand the instinct to "understand," but most artists record good muddled art using the most fraught of intentions.

i.e. interviews entertain me in part because of the face palm moments

Well, google isn't making this any better

https://jonimitchell.com/library/print.cfm?id=2431

Lott discussed one moment in particular when Mitchell performed for Rubin "Hurricane" Carter, the promising African-American boxer who was convicted of murder. During the performance, held at Carter's prison, Mitchell was booed off stage because the black prisoners thought her music was a "whitewashed version" of jazz and blues, he said. Out of anger, Mitchell publicly called Carter the N-word.

That was not the first time Mitchell was controversial regarding black culture, Lott said. On the cover of her 1977 album, "Don Juan's Reckless Daughter," Mitchell appears in blackface drag.

Lott explained that Mitchell's fantasy of being a black man was apparent in both her music and the relationships she had with men. Having a relationship with a black man came satisfyingly close to being one, Lott said.

"Joni thought she inhibited blackness," Lott said. "That's why she didn't see a problem with her wearing blackface or using the N-word."

She's looked at life from both sides now.

so, “above the law” as I’d guessed. Now I’m sad.

yeah, she seems to have thought she had the 70s equivalent of a hoodpass, but like, an ultrapremium hoodpass plus, because JFC

it's jarring because I always heard the line "oh well, just another hard time band with negro affectations" from the same album as a very sharp critical observation on white people slumming it and "trying on" blackness for their own amusement.

Well I think that really is the reading of that line, just didn't realise the singer excused the behaviour in herself because of her superior "credentials".
There was a pretty sharp disconnect from the real world in that LA showbiz elite in the 70s, and a lot of very iffy behaviour, which is depressing as it is thrown more into relief by historical perspective.

Fwiw part of the 'defence' (which ought to be as limited as possible in its scope) is that, as per Tom's sarcastic comment upthread, Canada does have a weird history with regard to blackface, mostly grounded in a problematic argument, which is routinely deployed by other Western countries as well: insofar as slavery was never practiced in Canada to the extent that it was in the US, blackface does not carry quite the same meaning on this side of the border. It's a disturbingly similar take to that of the alt-right in 2020, according to which anything short of a live-streamed lynching cannot be convincingly deemed 'true' racism. Here's a useful reminder of how ignorant such a perspective is in a Canadian context:

https://www.mcgill.ca/aapr/blackface-canada

Interesting that the article with that quote is on Joni's own website. I wonder what she thinks of those years now.

Do I...want to read this?

https://www.colorado.edu/gendersarchive1998-2013/2012/11/01/only-black-man-party-joni-mitchell-enters-rock-canon

Fwiw, Mitchell had been living in the US for over a decade by the time she made Don Juan's Reckless Daughter, an album on which she worked with Wayne Shorter and Chaka Khan. I'm not going to start a bonfire over a 40-year-old costume but she also doesn't get any slack for being a simple girl from Saskatoon.

My lack of Joni credentials is showing. That makes it all the more damning indeed.

sund4r otm -- if anything I think she was being too clever by half, not naive

Joni's story is definitely not one of her getting smarter and sharper over time: I think from Don Juan onwards there is an increasing sense of her losing any real capacity for self-criticism or self-awareness, until you end up with truly dumb songs like "The Windfall (Everything For Nothing)" that could only come from someone who is totally uncomprehending of their own privilege (also some great songs, but I don't think Joni circa 1975 would have let "The Windfall" make it onto an album).

I guess there is also a kind of boomer entitlement that during the 60s and 70s, they'd "settled" questions of racism and feminism and righted all the wrongs, so were "above the law" on such issues.

To me it feels more commonly like a post-Boomer, “this was solved before I got here” impulse — if only because other examples that come immediately to mind involve younger figures — tho I’m sure there are other ‘60s/‘70s instances that I’m not aware of.

https://i.pinimg.com/236x/1b/d6/a6/1bd6a68130934feb567abc8949d74f8e--patti-smith-patti-darbanville.jpg

the most obvious?

Most obvious what?

the most obvious instance of "this was solved before I got here" - Patti Smith's "Rock And Roll ...."

which she still plays live.

I guess the punk connection might make people think she's the next generation along, but she's only 3 years younger than joni

Was about to say, she's really of the same generation

Another hippy.

The 70s Rachel Dolezal

The PS song was a couple years earlier than DJRD.

Loads of later examples too, though. See Vice thread etc.

Actually, I think there's something different going on there.

Joni's story is definitely not one of her getting smarter and sharper over time: I think from Don Juan onwards there is an increasing sense of her losing any real capacity for self-criticism or self-awareness, until you end up with truly dumb songs like "The Windfall (Everything For Nothing)" that could only come from someone who is totally uncomprehending of their own privilege (also some great songs, but I don't think Joni circa 1975 would have let "The Windfall" make it onto an album).

― Tim F

100% agree, DJRD was a foreshadowing of Joni throwing her self-awareness and self-editing instincts out of the window for the most part of the 80s.

That story from the prison - did she think she was making 'authentic' jazz or R&B records in this period? I love these albums but that's kind of hilarious, like if David Gilmour got incensed that Dark Side of the Moon didn't make the R&B charts despite having a sax player, a soulful female singer, a blues track in "Money", etc.

The way she insisted on smoking in public during the '90s was Trumpian in its defiance.

pretty much all the original punks were late baby boomers I don't see why people think they are another generation

Certainly in the US.

I think the early Brit punks were all born in the 50s? Certainly Rotten, Strummer, Devoto, Sioux.

Strummer was an old man by UK punk standards.

Someone who was born after the baby boom would have been 12 in 1977.

So even Eater would have been boomers.

Yeah, to be clear, I wasn't thinking of punks with my comment. More like Tarantino etc.

FWIW, I also don't think of (white) hippies as having been particularly focused on racial justice, or sensitive to those concerns. I'm sure some were, though.

Details on her new box set:

Joni Mitchell Archives Vol. 1: The Early Years (1963-1967) (2020)

CD1
House Of The Rising Sun (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
John Hardy (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Dark As A Dungeon (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Tell Old Bill (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Nancy Whiskey (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Anathea (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Copper Kettle (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Fare Thee Well (Dink’s Song) (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Molly Malone (Radio Station CFQC AM, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (ca. 1963))
Introduction (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
Nancy Whiskey (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
Intro to The Crow On The Cradle (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
The Crow On The Cradle (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
Pastures Of Plenty (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
Every Night When The Sun Goes In (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
Intro to Sail Away (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
Sail Away (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - First Set)
John Hardy (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - Second Set)
Dark As A Dungeon (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - Second Set)
Intro to Maids When You’re Young Never Wed An Old Man (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - Second Set)
Maids When You’re Young Never Wed An Old Man (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - Second Set)
The Dowie Dens Of Yarrow (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - Second Set)
Deportee (Plane Crash At Los Gatos) (Live at the Half Beat: Yorkville, Toronto, Canada (October 21, 1964) - Second Set)
The Long Black Rifle (Joni’s Parents’ House: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (February 1965))
Ten Thousand Miles (Joni’s Parents’ House: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (February 1965))
Seven Daffodils (Joni’s Parents’ House: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada (February 1965))

CD2
Urge For Going (Myrtle Anderson Birthday Tape: Detroit, MI (1965))
Born To Take The Highway (Myrtle Anderson Birthday Tape: Detroit, MI (1965))
Here Today And Gone Tomorrow (Myrtle Anderson Birthday Tape: Detroit, MI (1965))
What Will You Give Me (Jac Holzman Demo: Detroit, MI (August 24, 1965))
Let It Be Me (Jac Holzman Demo: Detroit, MI (August 24, 1965))
The Student Song (Jac Holzman Demo: Detroit, MI (August 24, 1965))
Day After Day (Jac Holzman Demo: Detroit, MI (August 24, 1965))
Unknown Title (Jac Holzman Demo: Detroit, MI (August 24, 1965))
Favorite Colour (Let’s Sing Out, CBC TV: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, MB, Canada (October 4, 1965))
Me And My Uncle (Let’s Sing Out, CBC TV: University of Manitoba, Winnipeg, MB, Canada (October 4, 1965))
Sad Winds Blowin’ (Home Demo: Detroit, MI (ca. 1966))
Just Like Me (Let’s Sing Out, CBC TV: Laurentian University, London, ON, Canada (October 24, 1966))
Night In The City (Let’s Sing Out, CBC TV: Laurentian University, London, ON, Canada (October 24, 1966))
Brandy Eyes (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
Intro to Urge For Going (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
Urge For Going (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
Intro to What’s The Story Mr. Blue (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
What’s The Story Mr. Blue (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
Eastern Rain (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
Intro to The Circle Game (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
The Circle Game (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
Intro to Night In The City (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))
Night In The City (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (November 1966))

CD3
Intro to Both Sides Now (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA, (March 12, 1967))
Both Sides Now (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA, (March 12, 1967))
Intro to The Circle Game (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA, (March 12, 1967))
The Circle Game (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA, (March 12, 1967))
Morning Morgantown (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (March 17, 1967) - Second Set)
Born To Take The Highway (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (March 17, 1967) - Second Set)
Intro to Song To A Seagull (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (March 17, 1967) - Second Set)
Song To A Seagull (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (March 17, 1967) - Second Set)
Winter Lady (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (March 17, 1967) - Third Set)
Intro to Both Sides Now (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (March 17, 1967) - Third Set)
Both Sides Now (Live at the 2nd Fret: Philadelphia, PA (March 17, 1967) - Third Set)
Intro to Eastern Rain (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA (March 19, 1967))
Eastern Rain (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA (March 19, 1967))
Intro to Blue On Blue (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA (March 19, 1967))
Blue On Blue (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA (March 19, 1967))
Gemini Twin (A Record Of My Changes – Michael’s Birthday Tape: North Carolina (May 1967))
Strawflower Me (A Record Of My Changes – Michael’s Birthday Tape: North Carolina (May 1967))
A Melody In Your Name (A Record Of My Changes – Michael’s Birthday Tape: North Carolina (May 1967))
Tin Angel (A Record Of My Changes – Michael’s Birthday Tape: North Carolina (May 1967))
I Don’t Know Where I Stand (A Record Of My Changes – Michael’s Birthday Tape: North Carolina (May 1967))
Joni improvising (A Record Of My Changes – Michael’s Birthday Tape: North Carolina (May 1967))
Intro to Sugar Mountain (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA (May 28, 1967))
Sugar Mountain (Folklore, WHAT FM: Philadelphia, PA (May 28, 1967))

CD4
I Had A King (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Free Darling (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Conversation (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Morning Morgantown (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Dr. Junk (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Gift Of The Magi (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Chelsea Morning (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Michael From Mountains (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Cara’s Castle (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Jeremy (Incomplete) (Home Demo: New York City, NY (ca. June 1967))
Conversation (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Intro to Come To The Sunshine (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Come To The Sunshine (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Intro to Chelsea Morning (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Chelsea Morning (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Intro to Gift Of The Magi (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Gift Of The Magi (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Play Little David (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Intro to The Dowy Dens Of Yarrow (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
The Dowy Dens Of Yarrow (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
I Had A King (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Intro to Free Darling (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Free Darling (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Intro to Cactus Tree (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)
Cactus Tree (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - First Set)

CD5
Little Green (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Intro to Marcie (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Marcie (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Intro to Ballerina Valerie (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Ballerina Valerie (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
The Circle Game (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Intro to Michael From Mountains (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Michael From Mountains (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Go Tell The Drummer Man (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
Intro to I Don’t Know Where I Stand (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
I Don’t Know Where I Stand (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Second Set)
A Melody In Your Name (Live at Canterbury House: Ann Arbor, MI (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Intro to Carnival In Kenora (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Carnival In Kenora (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Songs To Aging Children Come (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Intro to Dr. Junk (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Dr. Junk (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Morning Morgantown (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Intro to Night In The City (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Night In The City (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Both Sides Now (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)
Urge For Going (October 27, 1967) - Third Set)

Since her debut album arrived in 1968, Joni Mitchell’s songs have been embraced across generations, inspired multitudes of artists around the world, and earned every conceivable accolade. She is now opening her vault for the first time to create the Joni Mitchell Archives, a new series of boxed set releases that will span the next several years, featuring deep dives in to unreleased content from different eras of her storied career. Mitchell has been intimately involved in producing the archive series, lending her vision and personal touch to every element of the project.

The series debuts on October 23 with JONI MITCHELL ARCHIVES VOL. 1: THE EARLY YEARS (1963-1967), which features nearly six hours of unreleased home, live, and radio recordings that flow chronologically to paint a rich portrait of Mitchell’s rapid growth as a performer and songwriter during the period leading up to her debut album. This treasure trove of unheard audio includes 29 original Mitchell compositions that have never been released before with her vocals. The collection will be available as a deluxe 5-CD set as well as digitally.

The collection begins in 1963 with her earliest-known recording as a 19-year-old Mitchell performs at CFQC AM, a radio station in her hometown of Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. The first song from this set, Mitchell’s take on House Of The Rising Sun, is available today as a digital single. Click here to listen now. The box culminates with a stirring, three-set 1967 nightclub performance recorded at the Canterbury House in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Through a wealth of unreleased live performances, home recordings, and radio broadcasts, ARCHIVES VOL. 1 brings into focus the period when Mitchell was finding her voice artistically. It shows her moving away from the folk standards of her early days (John Hardy and House Of The Rising Sun) and starting to write and sing her own songs (Day After Day and Urge For Going.)

ARCHIVES VOL. 1 reveals just how prolific a songwriter Mitchell was at the time. In addition to early versions of songs that would appear on Song To A Seagull (Michael From Mountains and I Had A King), the set also features songs destined for later albums: Chelsea Morning Both Sides Now (Clouds, 1969); The Circle Game (Ladies of the Canyon, 1970); and Little Green (Blue, 1971).

More than a just historic document, these recordings crackle with energy thanks to a vibrant and enchanting Mitchell. On many, you can hear her turning her guitar and telling a story about the song before playing it. That includes her rare 1967 cover of Neil Young’s Sugar Mountain, a song she says inspired her to write The Circle Game.

The 5-CD collection includes a 40-page booklet that features many unseen photos from Mitchell’s personal collection as well as new liner notes featuring conversations between writer/filmmaker Cameron Crowe and Mitchell, who recently spent a couple of Sunday afternoons together discussing her archives. Crowe will continue to provide liners for future releases in the series.

Liner notes for both vinyl releases were each composed by people who were in the room when the original performances were recorded. Barry Bowman was working as a DJ at radio station CFQC in 1963 and provides the notes for EARLY JONI. Bob Franke, who was covering Mitchell’s show at Canterbury House for the Michigan Dailywhile also moonlighting as a doorman at the club, pens the liners for LIVE AT CANTERBURY HOUSE. His original review for the Michigan Daily is also included.

Looking back, Mitchell reflects on her early label of folk singer: The early stuff, I shouldn’t be such a snob against it. A lot of these songs, I just lost them. They fell away. They only exist in these recordings. For so long I rebelled against the term, ‘I was never a folk-singer.’ I would get pissed off if they put that label on me. I didn’t think it was a good description of what I was. And then I listened and…it was beautiful. It made me forgive my beginnings. And I had this realization…I was a folk singer!

wow, I didn't realize "Urge For Going" was so early!

nice, I have a 2CD boot-type thing from Dime with a bunch of that stuff, it's good!

pretty major — this stuff will really fill out the overall picture of her career, I think. some of the early material is not amazing necessarily, but it's definitely cool to follow her trajectory (and some of it is very strong).

This particular volume isn't for me. But I'm looking forward to future releases. The word "archive" triggers a Neil Young wince in me. Let's hope she manages this project better than Shakey

Or at all; I've seen JM box sets announced before...although there was an import incl. all or a lot of the original albums, reviewed in Pitchfork. Here's some of the stuff on this one; click the link back to main menu if you refer mp3s:
http://www.ousterhout.net/lossless/jmitchell.html

oh man can we skip forward a box or two? hope whoever is running the show here is gonna roll them out in good time