Is ADHD a real disorder?

xpost...so what you're saying is that hurting 2 should do some coke so he can self-diagnose? ;)

This is precisely what I mean - we're taught to focus on 'negative' aspects of our personality as though they're somehow bad. We've been sold the idea that there's a 'norm' we must all subscribe to - that's the very essence of psychiatry, for example. Why is procrastination bad? Or being mildly disorganised? If you're overwhelmed, why isn't that a problem with your situation / environment, rather than a problem with you? What about looking for solution-focussed (i.e. positive) elements to those areas that you're struggling with?

Sorry, but this is bullshit. First of all, I am seeing a very good psychoanalyst who generally disfavors medication. He is helping me with a lot of things, but not with these particular problems. These problems have held me back in every area of my life, including wreaking havoc on my college transcript. And in fact I've seen therapists for much of the last 10 years, and in spite of great progress in my self-confidence and romantic life, I've made only marginal progress in this.

Procrastination and disorganization are real problems. They can lead to career and marriage failure, depression, feelings of wasted potential and missed opportunities. Fuck, if I wanted to of course I could "change my environment" instead - I could go live on some commune or something. But that isn't what I want.

I have the Adult ADD. It sucks.

Do you take meds?

if I wanted to of course I could "change my environment" instead. I could go live on some commune or something

You have utterly missed my point, but congratulations on calling bullshit.

And in fact I've seen therapists for much of the last 10 years

What I actually recommended was a decent psychologist - i.e. not a cash-cow 'therapist' who charges money for you talk shit about yourself.

They were "decent psychologists," dude. Which is exactly why I call bullshit - you don't know me at all, you're just pushing your agenda

I MEAN DO YOU HONESTLY FUCKING THINK I'VE NEVER THOUGHT OF THIS STUFF BEFORE LIKE DO YOU THINK IT'S NEVER OCCURRED TO ANYONE BUT YOU THAT BEHAVIORAL DISORDERS ARE "CONSTRUCTS" YOU BULLSHIT COLLEGE FUCK? FUCK OFF!

Mate, if you look at the tone of what I originally wrote you'll see I was just giving explaining, in friendly terms, my standpoint based my own hellish experiences. It certainly wasn't aimed at you, although I obviously made a mistake quoting something you wrote. Apologies.

Uh, yeah, I apologize for that as well. It's just that I've been struggling with these problems for much of my life. I've tried medication-free approaches and I've tried avoiding the labeling of any disorder. In fact I've never gone on any medication or deliberately gone for any kind of disorder evaluation. I'm aware of all of the philosophical and epistemological problems of psychiatric diagnosis.

But I also know that there are certain people who clearly have a serious problem they cannot entirely control. In extreme cases this sometimes leads to suicide. I knew a guy whose parents ignored his psychiatrist's severe bipolar diagnosis and he wound up firing a gun into traffic from his car and driving into a bus. I'm not expecting to drive into any buses, but I do think *disorders* can be quite real at the same time as being constructs.

hurting 2, i don't think huey was pushing any agenda except trying to offer some kind of concerned advice - which is kinda what you were asking for, right?

when i offered up the suggestion that these things are just aspects of 'personality types' i didn't mean to marginalise how shitty it must be for you to be going through all this. obviously, you explained your situation in more detail in later posts, so now i can see that you really feel these symptoms (or whatever the word for it is) have the potential to fuck up your life if you don't sort them out.

Yeah, exactly, I'm obviously not saying that the 'disorders' and their associated symptoms - paranoia, voices, depression, tiredness, intrusive thoughts etc - are not real in any way. All I'm saying is that it's often unhelpful to diagnose, label and prescribe using the current medical model, and I believe it's important that people - not you H2 - are aware of this when going to the GP, having a few symptoms ticked in a box, and being given a 'scrip for some ineffectual drug. I have no idea how the system works in the US - I'm talking from a UK / Australia perspective.

95% of the people being treated for clinical depression in the UK would benefit from some sort of concurrent psychotherapy, which they don't get. It's the pathologising of emotional peaks and troughs by drug companies. (disclaimer before more shoutiness: in my opinion).

I agree with all of that in general.

I really should learn not to air my dirty laundry on message boards in the first place :-/

I used to.

king, would you mind shooting me an e-mail?

i'm a bunch of different nerve endings/reactions/states that i don't even bother labeling, it's a waste of my time =) i just deal with what i can and talk to ppl when i can't.

and i think i always tend to go to the Parents when it comes to questions of overmedication. it's in their hands.

Hurting, I was "diagnosed" with ADHD when I was a kid and have been intermittently medicated. When I was in fourth grade, my doctor recommended giving me coffee instead of medication, because caffeine is supposed to simulate the focusing aspects of the drugs. I used to have to stay in during recess and drink milky coffee. Bummer.

In 5th grade, I started taking a drug called Cylert, which soon after was taken off the market for causing death from acute liver failure. I don't really remember it having much of an effect, although my parents', teachers', and grades' reactions were promising. I stopped taking it for some reason.

Then in 10th grade I started taking Adderall, 10mg at first. I don't know if you've ever taken any recreationally, but it's just like an amphetamine (or cocaine). You feel like a demi-god: ideas are numerous and profound, and your future is there to be filled with them. I used to take them before school, and I'd end up spending class scrambling to record my thoughts in my notebook. I told my doctor that I wasn't feeling much of an effect, so he prescribed me a 20mg dosage (orange pills now!). I used to skip my dosage, then take 50 - 60 mg, stay up for a few days, and then crash on the weekend. I'm not sure if my parents noticed my schedule or what, but I eventually stopped taking them. My grades didn't improve, I had terrible stomach aches, no appetite, AND areduced sex drive-- no good for a 16 year old.

I don't recommend medication. Obviously, I abused mine, so maybe someone more responsible could profit a proper schedule/dosage. I would never take them again, though. If ADHD exists and it's some sort of chemical imbalance, the medications we have simply aren't precise enough. It's like getting stitches with a knitting needle. It only gets the job done incidentally, and has a lot of side effects.

If you're desperate or curious, ask your doctor to do a trial two weeks or so. If it works, great. Personally, I would rather be my impulsive, distracted, procrastinating self than whoever the meds purport to make me. You have to remember that these drugs don't just regulate our kidneys or reduce cholesterol; they target our BRAINS, so they literally alter who we are.

Okay, I'm kind of drunk, but you should check out this corny bestseller that my mom bought me a few years ago. It's called DRIVEN TO DISTRACTION. It's kind of comforting.

huey is right.

you all have disorders.

ADHD can't be diagnosed based on a kid just being hyper or out of control. I used to work on the children's unit in a psychiatric hospital. ADHD was one of the diagnoses almost every child had. All of them had no trouble sitting on the couch watching Disney movies from beginning to end. A child who really has ADHD can't even focus on things they ARE interested in. What annoys me the most is that when kids are misdiagnosed like this on such a large scale you end up having people making claims that the disorder doesn't exist at all, which is not good for the children who really do have ADHD and really do need the medications in order to function well. It has been over 10 years since I worked at that hospital and I would have thought that the ADHD diagnosis trend would have died out by now. Apparently I was wrong.

fucking WOW! the whole "2 years ago" part of this thread is so unspeakably stupid, wrong, and awful, I would get angry if it were just a little less troll-y.

the rest of it's pretty awful, too.

I sometimes wonder if I have ADHD or something, but I think I'm just a lazy bastard.

(NB I am in no way insinuating that people with actual ADHD are just lazy and should pull themselves together or anything!!!)

Wait I think I mean ADD not ADHD.

same thing

I probably don't mean either then. Never mind!

kenan is just trying to be dumb and succeeding

ADHD is a slightly different flavor of ADD. I have the latter, not the former. Wasn't diagnosed until i was 21 or so.

xp thank you sunny

I'd thought I was ADD, myself. This is me to a tee:

I am a habitually messy, disorganized person, and I am easily distracted. I have trouble finishing projects, I procrastinate heavily, make tasks take way longer than they need to, and often feel "overwhelmed by the basic tasks of daily life" and all that.

But then the whole ticklist diagnosis thing makes me think it's coincidence, and that many people could apply these attributes to themselves quite comfortably. But do they?

Also, what are the social aspects? I've always found it incredibly difficult holding down conversations with most people, which I always figured was part of this. Is that something generally associated with the disorder? Never sure whether this was down to attention span or just bad listening skills. I've always been thought of as 'weird' anyway.

sunny likes big dogs

ITS TRUE!!!!

CHILDREN TOO!!

http://galleries.lycos.co.uk/d/4883-2/5900950.jpg
l-r big dog; kenan

big dogs are fun

to be serious for a moment, I was under the impression (of my doctor) that ADHD is what we now call ADD, and there is no difference.

also, i got it in spades, if you haven't noticed.

ADHD is a slightly different flavor of ADD.

plz to reference this, not to be the snark, but I really would like to know if I've been lied to

ADHD is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder and ADD is Attention Deficit Disorder. They *are* different diagnoses, so yes, you have been lied to.

that's not a reference

I can find nothing to differentiate the two AT ALL

please please make me look stupid

Doesn't 'HD' manifest itself in physical behaviors, where 'DD" is the mental/concentration issues?

http://add.about.com/cs/addthebasics/a/add.htm

The Differences between ADD and ADHD - Though there are many symptoms that are shared between ADD and ADHD, there are also some major differences. Some symptoms might also be similar but may be caused by different reasons. For example, restlessness can be a symptom of ADD, Inattentive Type, but is often triggered by anxiety from completing tasks requiring sustained attention. Restlessness in ADHD, Hyperactive and Impulsive Type is caused by the symptom of hyperactivity.

http://add.about.com/gi/dynamic/offsite.htm?zi=1/XJ&sdn=add&cdn=health&tm=55&f=20&su=p247.2.140.ip_p726.2.152.ip_p284.8.150.ip_&tt=2&bt=1&bts=1&zu=http%3A//www.help4adhd.org/en/about/what/WWK8

Confusing labels for AD/HD

In 1994 the name of the disorder got changed in a way that is confusing for many people. Since that time all forms of attention deficit disorder are officially called "Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder" after which a comma appears. After the comma, a subtype is specified:

* "Predominantly Inattentive Type" for someone with serious inattention problems, but not much problem with hyperactivity/impulsive symptoms;
* "Combined Type" for someone with serious inattention problems and serious problems with hyperactivity and impulsivity; or,
* "Predominantly Hyperactive/Impulsive Type for someone with serious problems with hyperactivity/impulsivity, but not much problem with inattention.

Even though these are the official labels, a lot of professionals and lay people use both terms: "ADD" and "AD/HD." Some use those terms to designate the old subtypes; others use ADD just as a shorter way to refer to any subtype.

http://www.add-adhd.org/ADHD_attention-deficit.html

What is Attention-Deficit Disorder?

ADD is officially called Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, or AD/HD (American Psychiatric Association, 1994), although most lay people, and even some professionals, still call it ADD or A.D.D. (the names given in 1980) or ADHD . The disorder's name has changed as a result of scientific advances and the findings of careful field trials; researchers now have strong evidence to support the position that AD/HD [ A.D.D. or ADHD ] [as we will refer to the disorder throughout the remainder of this Briefing Paper] is not one specific disorder with different variations. In keeping with this evidence, AD/HD [ A.D.D. OR ADHD ] is now divided into three subtypes, according to the main features associated with the disorder: inattentiveness, impulsivity, and hyperactivity. The three subtypes are:

* AD/HD [ A.D.D. OR ADHD ] Predominantly Combined Type,
* AD/HD [ A.D.D. OR ADHD ] Predominantly Inattentive Type, and
* AD/HD [ A.D.D. OR ADHD ] Predominantly Hyperactive-Impulsive Type.

These subtypes take into account that some children with AD/HD [ A.D.D. OR ADHD ] have little or no trouble sitting still or inhibiting behavior, but may be predominantly inattentive and, as a result, have great difficulty getting or staying focused on a task or activity. Others with AD/HD [ A.D.D. OR ADHD ] may be able to pay attention to a task but lose focus because they may be predominantly hyperactive-impulsive and, thus, have trouble controlling impulse and activity. The most prevalent subtype is the Combined Type. These children will have significant symptoms of all three characteristics.

ADD is officially called Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder, or AD/HD (American Psychiatric Association, 1994), although most lay people, and even some professionals, still call it ADD or A.D.D. (the names given in 1980) or ADHD

what so now im supposed to call it "a d slash h d"?

call me old school but NO HYPERACTIVITY, NO H.

sunny is just trying to be dumb and succeeding :P

look, i'm sorry I went off on big dogs in small apartments, ok? Truce.

Chronic Fatigue is SOOO fake. It used to be called sloth, and it's one of the seven deadly sins. Now it's a 'condition' so lazies can collect disability and watch more Montell.

-- andy, Wednesday, September 22, 2004 10:07 PM (2 years ago) Bookmark Link

There's not many statements I hate more than this type of statement.