Top story on the Guardian website - statues, next story, Boris Johnson's statement on BLM and statues, next story, Sadiq commits to reviewing statues...
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 09:43 (three years ago) link
Bronze Racists Matter
― Subverted by buggery (Tom D.), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 09:52 (three years ago) link
There's a huge amount of great, positive energy out there but you'd be forgiven for thinking that racism ended 200 years ago and the debate should be about how we memorialise it.
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 09:56 (three years ago) link
instead of getting stuck on statues, let's move on to this
If we’re gonna talk about the UK’s history with slavery, how about we talk about the MPs whose money + power comes from slavery?Thread:— Griff Ferris (@g__ferris) June 8, 2020
― Anti-Cop Ponceortium (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:08 (three years ago) link
Putting on my mask for a day trip to the statue museum
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:13 (three years ago) link
that's excellent work xp
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:13 (three years ago) link
lol no shock that Drax is the first name in the thread.
― calzino, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:20 (three years ago) link
a literal supervillain
― Prosecutor Bradley Tankerton (bizarro gazzara), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:24 (three years ago) link
And a power station to boot.
― Subverted by buggery (Tom D.), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:25 (three years ago) link
he definitely looks like an evil plantation boss
― calzino, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:26 (three years ago) link
plantation but turns out it was in ulster
― mark s, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:30 (three years ago) link
lol the plunketts predate the plantation, it's some proto-tudor shit
wikipedia sentence casting the shade here: "Debrett's single sourceless sentence on the subject describes the charter of 1439 as a writ, although Cokayne denies that Ireland recognised the creation of peerages by writ; some websites have copied Debrett"
cokayne: helluvadrug
― mark s, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:33 (three years ago) link
I feel like an absolutely massive churl but i honestly care less about what Drax's ancestors did in the 1700s than what Priti Patel is doing now. I'm fully on board with the idea that fundamental change isn't going to happen until Britain properly understands and reckons with the legacy of colonialism but at a point where people in the US are looking at ways to think beyond policing, the UK government has just forced through a new immigration bill that will severely impact the rights of migrants, there are allegations of suppressed / ignored evidence in the BAME COVID report, the hostile environment policy still guides immigration strategy despite promises it wouldn't, etc, etc, it might as well be a psy-op.
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:39 (three years ago) link
Isn’t the point that many of the UK’s establishment got their wealth through slavery and many of those people are in positions of power today? But yes, agree on you being a colossal churl.
― gyac, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:41 (three years ago) link
sv and gyac otm
― plax (ico), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:42 (three years ago) link
❤️❤️❤️
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:42 (three years ago) link
these things are deeply connected and agitation that churns up the deep placid assumptions abt the eternal truths of the british is where genuine movement comes and can somewhat stick: this is norman-yoke shit
it absolutely needs the two seemingly difft things being fought for tho
https://media.giphy.com/media/3o85xIO33l7RlmLR4I/giphy.gif
― mark s, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:47 (three years ago) link
cok-ay-ne knee's up.
(that's all i have)
the del-boy through the bar thing makes me think that maybe rolling a statue into the river in bristol should become a yearly event. there are worse. could be new statues, made especially, topical, like the effigies in lewes.
― koogs, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:48 (three years ago) link
I was watching that Jane Elliott piece on racism that was done here and the levels of resistance and blindness to privilege were unreal. People here complaining about Trump’s birthright citizenship proposals while Thatcher passed that legislation before I was even born. So yeah the conversation here is really behind in many ways.
― gyac, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:49 (three years ago) link
They're absolutely connected but shifting the focus of action back to Oxbridge and Rhodesia is territory the UK establishment is fundamentally comfortable with imo.
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:50 (three years ago) link
But yes, both,
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:51 (three years ago) link
highlighting the racism entrenched in the state now helps to spike the guns of all the "they've got nothing to complain about" scumbags to some extent
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:52 (three years ago) link
it's not at all comfy abt the issue of long-standing land ownership and predatory landlordism
― mark s, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 10:53 (three years ago) link
when you think about the era when Britain was like the Saudi Arabia of coal and all these landowners also owned the "underground plantations" on their land and made huge profits from paying poverty wages in dangerous working conditions that also exploited child labour, they can't be comfortable with that part of their ancestral legacy.
― calzino, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:10 (three years ago) link
I wouldn't put any amount of "we provided decent jobs by the standard of the times and weren't you lot all moaning about closing the mines wtf" past them
― stet, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:16 (three years ago) link
I admit I've never heard the phrase "Norman Yoke" before, but sure, blaming stuff on foreigners is as close to an eternal truth of England as you'll get.
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:17 (three years ago) link
Frequently, critics following the Norman yoke model would claim Alfred the Great or Edward the Confessor as models of justice. In this context, the Magna Carta is seen as an attempt to restore pre-Conquest English rights, if only for the gentry. When Sir Edward Coke reorganised the English legal system, he was keen to claim that the grounds of English common law were beyond the memory or register of any beginning and preexisted the Norman conquest, although he did not use the phrase "Norman yoke".
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:18 (three years ago) link
t/s: English coke vs Norman yokes
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:19 (three years ago) link
What did Layla Moran say about STAR WARS?
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:21 (three years ago) link
"Meesa surely Jar Jar Binks wish yess. Weesa say nosa"
" "
― calzino, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:23 (three years ago) link
its tricky bc by the time things grow prominent enough in the discourse to be noticed by ppl who don't normally pay attention they are so simplified/symbolic/superficial that they are always going to be a distraction to some extent and can be dealt with in a similarly symbolic/superficial fashion. wider anger about those things doesn't transfer to the specific details of whatever the latest policy/govt action is unless you have some sort of actually functioning representative democracy or other strong representative institutions.
remember when it was clear cummings had to go and all the focus was on that
― The Cognitive Peasant (ogmor), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:25 (three years ago) link
normans are just yr standard invaders that end up sitting atop society earning resentment, eternal mb but not particularly english
― The Cognitive Peasant (ogmor), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:29 (three years ago) link
the constitutional reforms of the 1830s-40s plus the institutional of empire in its post-mutiny form took much of the sting out of "norman yoke" rhetoric as a rough guide to the shape of injustice as felt at the time, and it generally fell out of use except among crackpots (me)
― mark s, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:29 (three years ago) link
oh lol can somebody trawl back thru the thread and see who had money on DomCum to be gone by now
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:29 (three years ago) link
Normans anglicized themselves eventually altho important not to lose sight of the fact that aristocrats are always transnational because not actually human
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:30 (three years ago) link
I'm puzzled why Moran posted that. Now unavailable?
― the pinefox, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:33 (three years ago) link
Arguably the events of the past week are profoundly useful to the government - coronavirus is not the top story for the first time in months, any upcoming spike can be blamed on protests alone and not government policy, and it's fuel for the next stage of culture war on terms they are comfortable with.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:34 (three years ago) link
the industrial revolution, massive migration and land reform and abolition of tangible ties to the feudal era in general obv make the norman yoke seem a less relevant concern as so many ppl's sense of identity changed, but ofc power tends to look after itself p well and despite a degree of social mobility strangely lots of those v old families that cummings' father in law gets misty eyed thinking about in his crypt seem to have made it through. i've made all the points about land ownership, life expectancy & norman surnames before, you all know the drill
― The Cognitive Peasant (ogmor), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:39 (three years ago) link
There was a news report about the actor who played Jar Jar Binks saying he'd be available to come back if wanted and Tim Farron, in his ongoing attempt to ensure that he's remembered as a self-aware tragic loser, rather than just a tragic loser quote-tweeted it with something like 'it's like me saying i'll come back to lead the Lib Dems', but in the broader sense, yes, we are all puzzled by Moran posted that.
― ShariVari, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 11:57 (three years ago) link
Moran and Tim please join Labour we need more like you to provide forensics.
― xyzzzz__, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:00 (three years ago) link
the norman yoke often pops up on the dark heart of middle england consumer program You and Yours where callers who thought they wholly owned their house have been diddled by some subtle form of leasehold feudalism.
― calzino, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:13 (three years ago) link
channel islands = still full feudalism aiui
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:18 (three years ago) link
not that the channel islands belong to the uk anyway
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:19 (three years ago) link
isle of man too ofc, the most fucked up place in the world
― The Cognitive Peasant (ogmor), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:21 (three years ago) link
I mean, leaseholding in its most annoying sense (where you can't force a fair payment to buy it out) is I think an entirely English phenomenon?
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:24 (three years ago) link
Public flogging is still legal on the Isle of Man, I believe.
― Matt DC, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:28 (three years ago) link
only if you ask really nicely
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:32 (three years ago) link
LADS
― Li'l Brexit (Tracer Hand), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:38 (three years ago) link
a cousin of mine from Dublin who is a bit of headcase once told me he to do a runner from one of the channel islands, i can't remember if it was Guernsey or Jersey. He was working in a butchers and during a bit of friendly horseplay with a co-worker he accidentally cut his face with a cleaver! This co-worker was from some top family on the island and he said he had to run for his life, or they literally would have buried him alive or something!
― calzino, Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:48 (three years ago) link
burned alive in a wicker horse iirc
― rolling keyring (Noodle Vague), Tuesday, 9 June 2020 12:51 (three years ago) link