Abolish the Police

this seems as good a place as any to vent: my local solidarity rally tomorrow is not allowing anti-police signs. I wish them the best with it but I'm going to pass. Small city in Canada.

there's probably other threads for cautiously liking the police tbf

Without first dismantling capitalism, there's no practical difference between abolishing the police and privatising it.

I don't think short-term commitment to abolition can be used as a gatekeeping device for conversations about how to move forward from where we are now.

it is true that we must first seize the means of production before the withering away of the state can occur

anyway the specific bone of contention was that the police are not a natural offshoot of the state of nature who must always be with us as sinful fallen humans

thank you, yes that is what I was saying

You know that old canard, "It's easy to criticize the police but you'll soon change your tune when you actually need them"? Well, I think I've said it here before but whenever I've actually needed the police - break-ins, muggings etc - they have proved to be completely useless and generally given the impression they couldn't give a flying fuck.

Add laziness and ineptitude to their list of sins.

here here, NV. I will have to work to have this discussion more, locally, soon.

ok just spitballing here but what if we abolished the police

hm interesting expand on that

the first time i got burgled the first 15 minutes of interaction with the cops was persuading them we hadn't done it ourselves cos we lived on a "bad" estate

love to burgle myself

in the US last year, the $ seized by cops in (largely illegal imo) forfeitures was greater than the amount lost in actual burglaries

I’m seeing people ask things like “But if there are no police who will go after RAPISTS???” and well I have some very bad news for those folks

— andi zeisler (@andizeisler) June 5, 2020

the only problem w not having any cops is who will we arrest the cops with

Thank you, sleeve.

I prefer the defund/shrink approach to abolish.

man alive i know you're p well read so i'm surprised to see you attack police abolitionism with...the way most police abolitionist orgs describe the path to abolishing the police

I’m definitely not well read and um, yeah, exactly.

yes, whether you see it as a reform/end in itself or as a step on the path to abolishment it's an excellent set of demands people should be able to get behind

I don't know a single person who has ever had a positive experience with the police

Part of public support for the police is misplaced liking of actors in endless cop shows, the most insidious form of propaganda out there. Abolish TV studios

endless cop shows, the most insidious form of propaganda out there

otm. going all the way back to The Andy Griffith Show and Dragnet.

and Deputy Dawg

anybody want to comment on the abolishment and replacement of the Royal Ulster Constabulary?

fine idea. I endorse it.

mostly "lol, fuck the RUC"

It was weird to open this thread and not see a gang of yank libs calling abolitionists immature dumb idiots who are probably 11 years old or something but I take that more as a sign of the moment than any kind of indication that this isn’t Chinatown

anybody want to comment on the abolishment and replacement of the Royal Ulster Constabulary?

This was a Good Thing and ultimately necessary; the RUC as a ‘brand’ was toxic for too many normal people by the GFA

Even American police forces have nothing on those guys.

came up with more ideas for police reform that will be as ineffective as anything proposed by 8 Can't Wait pic.twitter.com/eK9Aj6KpMA

— ben wasserman (@benwassertweet) June 4, 2020

thoughts and prayers is a weak ending, "make guns too big to hold" and "no ice cream before bed" have I Think You Should Leave vibes tho

yeah, i would like to remove thoughts and prayers from the platform

no fuck it abolish the police

anyone wanna give me talking point to use on a friend who thinks that defunding the police and dismantling the unions "sets an anti-labor precedent"

(note: he is a 50-something hippie lifelong bus drive diehard union member who puts labor first)

I have to admit I have a tough time on that point bc it feels like teachers' unions will be next in line

If we abolish the police wouldn’t they just be replaced by private security forces who would not even be *nominally* required to protect the safety of the public (vs private property)?

ask your diehard union friend whether it is more important that unarmed black men die or that effectively addressing their murders "sets an anti-labor precedent", because he has to recognize that these are the choices. it might resonate to ask "which side are you on?"

I think we need to transform how policing works and many of the social problems we see as police issues should be handled by social workers. Military training of cops needs to be banned outright; de-escalation must be required.

I think we should create a model of criminal justice that emphasizes rehabilitation and reintegration into society. Everyone who is released from jail should have a job lined up with a living wage.

I think a lot of things. One thing I don’t think is that we should have a weaker public sector.

btw, I helped to organize my fellow school bus drivers from an non-union shop into a unionized bargaining unit.

Maybe existing police unions should be dismantled because they support a horrific status quo, who knows. Police abolition seems like a meaningless phrase to me because there are rapes and murders in america and we need to have someone address these issues.

the tru pro labor version is that cops are class traitors who suppress other workers.

^ yes

it would probably violate various laws to eliminate police unions but they could be expelled by their affiliates and lose resources. i can't see how that would harm teachers or other public sector unions in any way.

do other unions actually kill people? i mean, not through negligence. like in their day-to-day

yeah and it's not just the fact of killing people it's that the union is used to defend this behavior through paying for lawyers for criminal and trial board cases, bargaining for agreements that help police avoid any other accountability, resisting any positive change in department rules, and making contributions to anti-worker candidates for office. all of the benefits of being labor with none of the solidarity.

benefits to the individual cops, i mean, of being organized

thank u harbl, I quoted you but now the dude is moving goalposts and hairsplitting, good times

I don't know a single person who has ever had a positive experience with the police

― anvil, Friday, June 5, 2020 7:34 PM (yesterday)

same. it is really remarkable how completely shitty and useless and terrible they are in every way.

i'm used to being the boring person in the room who argues for the value of gradualism, blah blah blah, but after the last two weeks, there's no reason to see anything positive in the police as an institution. there's no redeeming what they are. i can't look at them as anything but an instrument of anti-democratic state repression (and i recognize that, for many people, that is all they have ever been). we should get rid of them and assign their essential duties to new institutions, and hold those institutions accountable.

Police abolition seems like a meaningless phrase to me because there are rapes and murders in america and we need to have someone address these issues.

― treeship., Friday, June 5, 2020 7:36 PM (two hours ago)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TWQ7nir9p5I

Not sure where to put this, but this thread is as good as any - Interview with Portland beat cop on rapid response team

Police abolition seems like a meaningless phrase to me because there are rapes and murders in america and we need to have someone address these issues.

― treeship., Friday, June 5, 2020 9:36 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

treezy i know you can do your own googling on this

1) what percentage of murders are solved/prosecuted?
2) what percentage of rapes?
3) does research show that policing reduces the incidence of crime?
4) does research suggest that anything else does?

Some police officers came round to my friend's house after their downstairs neighbour died and they had to bust in. One officer took her housemate's number – she thought for official purposes. No, instead he texted her 'Hey, how are you?'

— Moya Lothian-McLean (@mlothianmclean) January 26, 2023

The 363-page report condemns the force as institutionally racist, misogynist and homophobic. Staff routinely experience sexism, it adds. There are racist officers and staff, and a "deep-seated homophobia" in the organisation.

In London, Baroness Casey says policing by consent - the idea ordinary people trust the police to act honourably and be held accountable - is broken.

The report says leadership teams at the top of the Met have been in denial for decades, and there has been a systemic failure to root out discriminatory and bullying behaviour.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65015479

Guess what happens next?

First the inquiry, then the crime

Who'd have thought it, eh?

London Evening Standard crowing about how they're gonna put undercover officers to uncover bad behaviour in the met. Yeah, that'll do it.

maybe there's a few good apples

There is always another view.

The influence of what sorry? pic.twitter.com/CvhJvC6qeU

— Tom Williams (@shirleymush) March 21, 2023

Fucking lunatic

I'm sorry to say we won't be able to hold the Metropolitan Police Commissioner to account tonight for the Casey Report's findings of institutional racism, misogyny and homophobia because his press office have again excluded #C4News

— Krishnan Guru-Murthy (@krishgm) March 21, 2023

It's astonishing he's still in post.. the stuff he's been talking about as responses are such weak-piss penny-ante crap. He seems completely out to lunch!

almost wish khan hadn't finished cressida dick because she should be front and centre eating shit for this. except she would just brazen it out like she always does. then again if you were in charge of an operation where someone gets murdered and it doesn't so much as pause your rise to the top why would you ever expect consequences.

The Irvo Otieno story is another example of how it isn’t just that police aren’t trained to be mental health workers, but people with mental health problems are despised and feared in the US. Truly sickening country