Friend Infected With Right Wing Brain Worms - What to Do?

My cousin's two teenagers (and two divorces) have apparently worn away the vestiges of her snake handling Pentecostal upbringing, so it's been a nice surprise to see that brain worms can be killed.

I never try to talk to my RW relatives about this stuff online; I just call them out on shit they say when it's egregious and I'm there in person to hear it. FWIW all of them support justice for George Floyd in the individual case, but trying to talk to them about systemic police violence against black people, or putting the rioting/unrest into context for them is a fool's errand.

I was about to say "I don't have any" when I saw a post from a friend of mine sharing a CANDACE OWENS video of all fucking people, tearing down the Floyd movement. so I wrote out a long response instead of going back to sleep like I planned, and pointed out all of the things wrong with the video (the number of white NRA Trump Voters who liked the video shoulda been the first clue that it's disingenuous bullshit).

he's always been conservative-ish but he's a young Christian male in his 20s, a lot of us grow out of that. but he got a job as a 911 dispatcher and it's clouding his vision a bit. he hasn't posted one thing regarding George Floyd since it happens, just whataboutism and "hey remember this cop that died".

trying to reach this dude (and I know about 7 others will swoop in after I did - it's early in the morning yet). but don't have my hopes up.

I've thought about doing this on territory closer to where they are. Eg framing it more in terms they might recognize ("do the police have too much power?", "is there any oversight of these guys at all?", "it worries me that a government institution has so much power and weaponry", "they seem so careless, I'm not sure we should reward recurring failures with taxpayer money").

Seeing where they might be any possible inroad at all, but given authoritarian leanings this might be equally fruitless

As an aside I was looking at something on a screenshare with my cousin and my mother (nothing to do with any of this). And I realized my cousin was completely unable to take in new information on the screen when it changed (my mother saw in an instant)

Not only that but was almost on edge, panicked, defensive about it (not to a significant degree but it was there). The intake of information was too much, too quick, to the level of being rejected or dismissed, the original information much preferred

I used an anecdote about a time when i wrecked my car in a one car accident driving drunk, the cop knew i was drunk, but instead of making me take a field sobriety test and arresting ne, showed compassion and let me off the hook and just made me tow my car home. The cop was black.

I asked him to imagine a role reversal and how he thinks that would have gone.

(I should have been arrested tbrr)

xp what sort of information do you mean?

It wasn't anything political, it was just some family stuff. The point was that even with apolitical stuff there was still a form of resistance, "I don't want to hear it". This wasn't anything stressful in the slightest, but a struggle to deal with changed or new information. It wasn't that new new information was bad it was that something had changed and it had caused some form of disorientation

I think its part of why he never asks anything, because that could lead to new information rather than affirmation. And why every exchange is, at base, combative

My boyfriend has been sharing video after video of cop violence against protestors on Facebook and my conservative mom went from “why are they rioting?” to “fuck the police.”

— Jami Miller ✏️📰 (@pixieonmoon) June 4, 2020

point in the comments here thats peoples exodus from facebook has left relatives unguarded

Interesting idea although the original allure of Facebook for most was surely not as a way to keep in touch with relatives particularly.

Anvil: how old is your cousin? I don’t want to diagnose anyone over ilx, but it sounds like some kind of learning disability.

point in the comments here thats peoples exodus from facebook has left relatives unguarded

lol maybe they should form watch groups

That Candace Owens vid is really getting around.

Calling It Now: CRENSHAW/OWENS 2024

Can’t help but parse RW as Richard Wagner every time.

That video is so fuckin' infuriating. She says two minutes in that no other race, especially not white people, praises their lowest common denominator. Ignoring how terrible it is to call Floyd a lowest common denominator, HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN AMMON BUNDY OR THE ARMED MILITIAS AT THE COURTHOUSE THREE WEEKS AGO

I don’t want to diagnose anyone over ilx, but it sounds like some kind of learning disability.

Definitely not a learning disabilities! But someone who holds views very tightly and doesn't do well with change. Part of why anything even perceived as a challenge is met with high levels of defensiveness

I added my trump-loving extended family (well two of them anyway) back on FB with the explicit mission of countering them every time they posted shit that is fake and after a week it already feels like a lost cause. My aunt will post "racism is wrong" one day and follow it with "blacks kill the most blacks! blue lives matter!" shit the next. Uncle disgusted by Obama daring to say the police need meaningful reforms. I wrote a screed that is even-tempered and insightful in response and got nowhere with him, though someone else agreed with me on the reforms I suggested.

after a week it already feels like a lost cause

Shockah.

That said, this kind of work takes years, assuming you really want to go down that route.

gotta try incepting them

AN IDEA IS LIKE A VIRUS

there were def times in the past four years where my mom (who has decided she didn't like to talk about politics) was trending this way, influenced mainly by the catholic church, but she seems to have gotten straight; she posted Tamika Mallory speaking in NYC two days ago.

xp to akm - Extracting concessions to reasonableness from your older relatives is probably not going to happen. Old dogs usually keep to their old tricks. But projecting a reasonable voice in their direction may do some unseen good as it moves past your aunt and uncle and into the FBosphere beyond them.

True. I'm also spending a fair amount of time just reporting fake news to FB. I've seen at least a few things they've posted disappear.

after a week it already feels like a lost cause

fb is effective because of the relentless repetition. Also words can't compete with video. I think posting or sending one video of police brutality only tagged "this is weird" or "they shouldnt step on the little guy" and nothing else is the only way to reach some of these people. if they respond, then something like "i dont know, seems like they got too much power to me". There's enough clips of it happening to white people if you think that might be more effective

Also

"don't forget, the government wants to control you and oppress you. they don't just come in suits, they can also come in military grade vehicles with rubber bullets. Don't let that teargas and those helmets fool you, they're not on your side, they're just as dangerous as the man in the suit"

and for the TooFarGones "has Gates been arrested yet? suspicious, no? How do we know some of those rubber bullets are bullets at all? they could easily be microchipped vaccines, the police have total power and no oversight, what better method than distributing them to large numbers of people in a way that raises no suspicion whatsoever. the police aren't on your side, they are vaccinating people in plain sight wake up sheeple"

A Facebook friend messaged me that Candace Owens video. Considered a lengthy rebuttal, opted for “I already know what Trump mouthpieces have to say.” Should I have done more?

defriend

Alternatively, just take your cues from this absolute legend:

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/20/544861933/how-one-man-convinced-200-ku-klux-klan-members-to-give-up-their-robes

lol i'm just imaging responding to yr average fb asshole w/ "i will interact with you on this issue but if you find my arguments convincing you must give me your kkk robes"

does the story tell you what he's going to do with all those robes because that's my main question

He sends them to Spain for use during Holy Week. They just go so well with the capirotes.

seems legit

Publicly responding to an asshole sharing that video could help convince on the fence people. My mother has turned into a shocking FUCK THE POLICE proponent over time.

But in private? They're sharing the vid as a "haha gotcha lib", one word, defriend

I haven’t friended my mom but she sent that CO-vid.

yeah, and I wager most people aren't watching the vid, but are sharing it as a "haha see, I dont have to care about BLM/Floyd, this Black lady said it's ok! she also said it's ok to like Trump! win win!"

Neanderthal, that’s my take as well.

I spent a good hour breaking down why the video was terrible (which unfortunately, included watching it) because the person that posted it shared it on his Wall, and it was a shock to see it from him, as he's never seemed like this type of person before, and he's young. he wasn't moved by it, but I had to try.

what's really ugly about it is he's one of the people that is in charge for splicing the virtual singing videos we made for our Breast Cancer fundraiser that is streaming next week. One that has many Black performers who are devastated by the Floyd situation and are likely to be very upset by what he posted. Like a betrayal.

I’m not watching it either. CO is so dodgy and she’s now married to an aristocratic Brexit asshole, so UK people are familiar with her schtick.

I somehow wasn't familiar with her specifically so I had to see who she was. now that i got that out my system, never again

The guy who sent it to me doesn’t post much on Facebook at all, he’s not a Trump troll - although CO certainly is - so I was very surprised as well. He’s not a close friend, so no loss.

IME sending individual videos can be good but invites a familiar #bothsides trap. Look, here is a cop pulling down someone's mask and pepper-spraying him. Here are cops beating a person who's already down. Here's a cop just straight up killing a human being in broad daylight.

Yr right-wingnut goes but #whatabout and cherry-picks: whatabout these cops shot in St. Louis. whatabout these Asian shop owners being terrorized and losing everything. whatabout this antifa dude using an aerosol blowtorch on etc. etc. etc.

It is the trumpian "flood the zone" strategy. You hear enough conflicting information, you shrug and figure you don't know what to believe and you return to your tribal lens. It is, as a wise man once said, "sad."

The thing is not to get into anything protracted, not let yourself be dragged down that path. The first thing is just to show the videos which may or may not have been seen by them before. And just show one video not loads in a row. Say it's disturbing you, say you're frightened of the police. Say rioters will be arrested at least but the police probably not. Show them a video of a white person being beat. Show them whatever you think is most likely to do something. Don't give the answer for them, just say "I don't understand whats happening in this video it makes no sense to me, can you explain".

Agree with them about the rioters. Ask them why they are wasting their time swarming around a person sitting on the ground when there are rioters to catch. What kind of dumb ass pussy avoids arresting rioters to pick on individual people just sitting there. Are they even competent?

At the end of the day someone feels a visceral reaction when 10 police beat someone on the ground, or they don't. If there's a flicker of humanity there...it can come out in time, but it doesn't mean its going to be today. If there isn't, then there isn't

From social media it does seem some eyes are being opened. I don't know how true that is, or how many, but there are protests in Harlan County right now. Harlan County!

wow really? protests in harlan county about BLM?

A friend right in the middle of it all In Minneapolis has been staying up late on neighborhood watch and going after people from her tiny super white rural high school with long diatribes and breakdowns of their shitty FB posts including the CO video and it’s pretty great to see. Not sure it’s doing anything but she’s got credibility as both a local and as someone who has had her home and family under direct threat for the last week but still supports protests and BLM. At least one person did take down a BS article after getting called on it.

Personally I’ve seen a surprising number of people who I know lean conservative, some of whom certainly voted for trump but weren’t vocal about it, posting BLM information, memes and infographics about systemic racism and police brutality, pics of them or their kids at protests and marches, and so on. It’s really shocking because these people were never even remotely political before and it gives me a lot of hope

That’s awesome to hear.

I have determined my family 1) doesn't believe in systemic racism 2) barely believes in real racism unless it conforms to basic ideas of racism in the 50's and 60's 3) doesn't believe there are any grounds for anyone to protest at all 4) if you protest the status quo you should leave the country. I think I'm giving up.

wow really? protests in harlan county about BLM?

In lieu of a March, at least a hundred folks are lined up along the highway. Lots of honks of support. pic.twitter.com/WKCP5rBQgf

— Sydney Boles (@sydneyboles) June 2, 2020

I have determined my family 1) doesn't believe in systemic racism 2) barely believes in real racism unless it conforms to basic ideas of racism in the 50's and 60's 3) doesn't believe there are any grounds for anyone to protest at all 4) if you protest the status quo you should leave the country. I think I'm giving up.

Thats tough, were they anti-covid protests too? They're anti first amendment, you can't even reach them on that? A number of people are just TooFarGone's. Sometimes I wonder how many people would support pre-emptive live rounds into the homes of suspected protestors. 10%? Of every living person just to be on the safe side...1%?

I had someone I'm very close with and really care about start spamming me out of the blue with this Candace Owens shit this evening, and just very aggressively hammer me with a flood of dubious stats and say how disappointed they were with me that I wouldnt watch that video, that was being surprisingly close minded. And of course when I pointed out that she was racist and anti-BLM, got "she's a black lady!"

Idk where the fuck this came from. I've never thought of them as racist and we hadn't been talking about anything related to this. Now I have to rethink whether I want this person in my life.

Reading this thread and talking to other friends, I'm wondering if this shit is getting an extra big push or what the fuck is going on. It seems like it's reaching people that would usually not be paying attention.