Ongoing U.S Police Brutality and Corruption Discussion Thread

the internet seems to disagree but i thought '12' was slang of much longer standing

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam-12

Oh OK it's news to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57gSH8qxpCU

I thought Fuck 12 was about a jury for a long time (ala the flip side reactionary 'better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6')

The organizers of this evening’s march and vigil through Franklin Park in Boston, namely BLM and Violence in Boston, did a fantastic job. It was massive and beautiful, and I feel very grateful. That’s all I got for now.

Y'ALL!! THEY GOT CRANES TAKING DOWN THE RIZZO STATUE TONIGHT!!!! #PhillyProtest pic.twitter.com/nxaRFIwrpk

— Ernest Owens (@MrErnestOwens) June 3, 2020

Au revoir to the MOVE bomber

Pomenitul many xp but thanks for the Marianne article

Rizzo wasn't actually mayor or police chief during the MOVE bombing- shamefully that was Wilson Goode, the city's first Black mayor.

Rizzo's still a huge piece of shit and wherever the statue ends up will likely only be easier to, you know, make civic improvements to, so that's still awesome news.

Hi everybody. I was arrested at the protests in Richmond last night (or rather after). I wanted to share my experience + shed some light on what the police are doing. 1/

— no moniker (@nomoniker_) June 2, 2020

sent the message that they are disorganized, often incompetent, and that they’ve created a situation that they don’t know how to handle. They are hoping to bully us into submission. 25/

— no moniker (@nomoniker_) June 2, 2020

This bit really sums up so much going on w/authority right now.

My friend has been out every night covering the protests and beyond for the WaPo. Here are a couple of things he's been posting/adding to social media:

26th Street in Little Village is a mellow gathering tonight -- a truce between the Latin Kings, who have been protecting storefronts since Saturday, and surrounding black neighborhoods who felt scapegoated on social media. Yes, a social media war followed by gunshots and a few skirmishes ... a misunderstanding no different from the fake news everywhere else, one kid tells me. "If you come peacefully, you're welcome," another tells me. "If you come to cause harm, it's not happening." These two flag bearers met tonight and are marching together to show the South Side is not about violence. "If the South Side of Chicago can do it, anyone can do it," says Aaron Rivas.

A few hours later:

So this is a Dollar Tree on Chicago Avenue on the West Side. Looters looted all day; then tonight they torched it.
People are saying really nice things about little stuff I'm posting here and what I've been contributing at the Post. I'm just doing what any reporter does. But, what I could use thanks for is reading the many posts by largely white people at home who, since Saturday, have somehow romanticized looting. These are people who are sharing that awful meme that suggests if you are outraged by looting you couldn't be outraged by the death of George Floyd.
No. You can be outraged by both. Looting is a destroyer in these neighborhoods. I'll give you that Gucci can rebuild. And Gucci customers can move on and deal. But you know who can't? The man I interviewed tonight who is the caretaker for his mother. The Dollar Tree looting and fire now means he has nowhere to buy groceries. He has no car. The nearest Jewel might as well be on Mars, it's so far away. "It's a loss. It helped us. It's horrible destroying things we need," he said.
You know who else can't? The 34-year-old woman I interviewed who worked at the Dollar Tree for three years. Tonight she's jobless, along with her five co-workers who stood watching the empty store from across the street. "Now we can't feed our kids," she said. "Now we're going to have to do something else." The steps on all the greystones across the block were filled with people ... largely silent. The sadness on that block was so thick, it was unbearable.
This whole thing is a fucking tragedy, has zero to do with George Floyd, and it's so aggravating to read armchair liberals deciding what's good for the impoverished in this city. Real life is more complex to fit a meme. Or that think piece in Salon you're sharing that got your echo chamber giving you mega likes.
The next time you share that meme and crawl on top of the soapbox proclaiming how looting and destruction is a super good thing because — Who? Trump? The Man? Santa Claus? — is going to learn a lesson about the suffering of people, why don't you drive to Chicago and Homan and ask the people who are actually suffering? Guarantee they'll give you a different story.

Kind of reminds me of when I rewatched "Do the Right Thing" with my kid last year or so. After the riot at the end, and the smashing of windows and burning of the pizza parlor, everyone in the neighborhood is just standing there, sad, in a state of shock, with a sort of "I know why we did it, but what have we done?" exhaustion.

Would you be fine with sharing his Twitter handle, Josh?

He's @markguarino, but the stuff I posted he wrote on Facebook (which I believe he made public, because people I know have suddenly started sharing his stuff.)

Thanks!

The @bostonpolice deliberately attempted to instigate a riot tonight.

— The Real Segun Idowu (@revrenddoctor) June 2, 2020

I have made a point of not focusing on the looting, but I can't deal with well-off white friends getting excited by it or acting like it's a good thing. Maybe the luxury stores on fifth avenue are one thing, but minority neighborhoods suffer long-term serious damage from it. Small businesses lost, live savings lost, jobs lost, ability to meet basic needs like groceries and pharmaceuticals, neighborhood disinvestment, flight, there's no net good from it. I also can't deal with people trying to simplify it into just some kind of pure expression of rage of the oppressed (which tbh I think has some questionable racial overtones in itself), because there are always just people who are opportunistic assholes, shitty dumb teenagers, etc. in the mix.

Meanwhile, as noted it is often cops trying to instigate violence and/or standing down at the moments when they are actually needed to protect people or small neighborhood businesses. So that's why I don't focus on it.

Burn more police stations instead IMO.

at least 11k arrests so far: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/scottpham/floyd-protests-number-of-police-arrests

Not for nothing, but part of the reason it's so hard to tell who's police/military and who's militia and/or white power at the protests is because both groups have adopted the same uniforms, tactics, training, and weapons (1)

— Kathleen Belew (@kathleen_belew) June 3, 2020

Regarding "rage of the oppressed", i can only speak for my own sphere, but I've not really been seeing too many people specifically singling out looting as a "good thing", but rather focusing on the entire spectrum, like fires, burning police vehicles, scuffling with aggressive officers, etc.....which is being defended, with the exception of those outside agitators who are hijacking the protest and then causing innocent Black bystanders to catch a beating from myopic police (like that one white asshole from some fringe group who was videoed destroying a cop car and when told to stop by Black protesters, flipped them off).

Nobody in my sphere has specifically said "looting is good, destroy all stores", though i think some on ILX may have

1️⃣8️⃣2️⃣ Los Angeles, CA: police block a street to swarm out and start arresting random motorists for violating curfew

pic.twitter.com/jvHNXUoPDc

— T. Greg Doucette (@greg_doucette) June 3, 2020

Obviously minor compared to some of the other abuses we've seen, but JFC look these clowns intimidating the fuck out of and arresting people for trying to get home, who clearly have nothing to do with the protests.

Not that it would be any more acceptable if they were protesters, but this is even more ugly.

I have a friend who has been saying that the looting is a good thing. He's Serbian, grew up in Belgrade during the 1990s, and moved to the usa for grad school. He now lives in the usa deep south.

I should add, he hates cops, thinks private property should be abolished, etc. he's not on the right at all, but rather, his politics were shaped by a quite different experience than most usa residents.

I can't deal with well-off white friends getting excited by it or acting like it's a good thing

have you gone out of your way and talked with them about it? i have discovered that "talking with other white people about racism and how to talk about racism" is a full time job by itself. you may annoy your friends, but you're doing the right thing by talking with them about it. the alternative is to bitch about them behind their backs,. which accomplishes nothing. i feel like a very old part of me woke up again, the part that directly confronts my closest friends and asks "what are you doing to help this situation?" instead of quietly listening, which tbh i am not very good at. i am an action person. i have annoyed MANY PEOPLE throughout my life by having these conversations and tbh i don't regret any of it.

i really believe that if white people do NOT talk with other white people we are never getting out of this cycle; that is too depressing to contemplate. i was really inspired by this message from Ohio minority leader in the state house Emilia Sykes http://www.ohiohouse.gov/emilia-strong-sykes/press/leader-sykes-black-ohioans-are-not-ok

thanks for that link LL

Yes, I do try to talk to them about it, to say "Yes, I get it, but there are going to be real negative consequences for the same people whose lives we are protesting for from entire blocks of mom and pop stores being destroyed." I don't know that anyone I'm trying to convince is actually out there smashing windows anyway, so maybe it's sort of academic and pointless. I think it's very hard for people to process tbh, including myself. We all want to be on the side of justice and it can be easier to just compartmentalize things into "well fuck businesses anyway" so you can push that aside and just focus on celebrating the protests. But I feel sad for what has happened in some neighborhoods and I'm worried about the long term effects.

And yes, I do have friends literally saying "fuck businesses, it's all just wage slavery anyway, abolish capitalism." And it's like "okay, but smashing those small businesses does not get us any closer to abolishing capitalism, it just makes some indivduals' lives harder under capitalism." At least I don't think it does.

xp - it is my pleasure to spread her words -- her family has inspired me since i was a wee child! both of her parents were elected officials/public servants and she is the AOC of Akron <3

actually that's not true -- she's her own person and has mostly superficial things in common w AOC aside from the "elected official" part

My friend specifically posted that looters should not target small businesses akin to what man alive said, and got taken apart for it, but i agree with the overall sentiment.

It's hard to tell who even is doing most of the looting

ums's posts yesterday were sobering in that regard, regarding the only supermarket left in town

I spent a good chunk of Monday night slightly anxious because a crowd was burning stuff near the shop - but when I watched the livestreamed videos, I doubt anyone involved was past their very early 20s and really why would they have any investment in the city/state/country/society. They're the cohort most likely getting fucked right now by the COVID depression, police fuck with them and kill them with impunity, they're never going to own a home and most likely will spend the next 50 years on a treadmill of chasing whatever shitty options are semi-affordable to rent.

Burning shit is what happens when people have nothing to lose and judging their choice of what to smash and burn feels like having an argument with gravity.

It's possible to both understand the impetus and recognize the negative impact of the act itself.

have not been feeling great about not protesting yet though I did monitor the scanners for friends who did the other day; that said, I have been surprised by at least some of my family's support for all this (there was one call yesterday I quite frankly was dreading but it actually was almost totally free of horrifying shit said)

I've been making donations to various bail funds.

Burning shit is what happens when people have nothing to lose and judging their choice of what to smash and burn feels like having an argument with gravity.

― Donald Trump Also Sucks, Of Course (milo z), Wednesday, June 3, 2020 10:09 AM (thirty-six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I very much agree with this take, I just don't think it's to be celebrated, nor do I think anyone should expect that it brings us closer to dismantling capitalism. The people who will suffer most are also poor. The people who will suffer least are the better-heeled owners who have fat insurance policies and the better off residents who can flee for the suburbs, taking their money with them. We've seen this play out before.

Minneapolis City Council member:

I don’t know yet, though several of us on the council are working on finding out, what it would take to disband the MPD and start fresh with a community-oriented, non-violent public safety and outreach capacity.

— Steve Fletcher - Minneapolis Ward 3 (@MplsWard3) June 2, 2020

also FYI, Minneapolis has a "weak mayor" system so a councilman saying this really means more than if Frey did

On the mpls topic, here’s a good attempt at summing up the arson scene:

https://naomikritzer.com/2020/06/03/minneapolis-outside-agitators/

This video has been geolocated to the corner of Avenue X and W. 3rd Street in Gravesend - 6.5 miles from the main Brooklyn protests and 9.5 miles from the nearest serious looting in Manhattan. https://t.co/BiuUM47rHq https://t.co/SlXl5H6kH7

— Evan Hill (@evanchill) June 3, 2020

cops are such fucking herbs

Lmao Avenue x

I don't even know what to think about that location. Isn't it mostly Russian/Ukrainian/Orthodox there? What are they gonna loot, the schnitzel place?

these fuckers got caught with their pants down because they didn't have intelligence on the groups of kids of discord who did smash and grabs so rather than admit they dropped the ball, they've decided they're gonna blame protestors because why not

lmfao

Similarly when I go out to bars I take off my wedding ring, as a gesture of respect to my wife. https://t.co/SK2JZWwcGj

— TinyShortBunkerInspectionHat (@Popehat) June 2, 2020

I mean that is just straight up trolling, de blasio is truly a punk