US Politics, June 2020 — You have to dominate.

our NatSec community certainly wouldn’t know anything about flooding certain regions with guns

idg your position. of course we do this shit. but that doesn't alter the extreme undesirability of having it done to us. And Russia is not doing it to us as a karmic redress of our injustices to other nations, but purely and simply to enhance their own power, as they are doing in Ukraine. this is not a situation where our actions and the Russians neutralize each other. it's a situation where the Russians have been actively fucking up the place where you and I live and that is, ipso facto, a very bad thing for us. if you want proof of that, turn on the television.

Here is transcript of a testy exchange between the president and @GovPritzker of Illinois, per person on call. pic.twitter.com/fNYW8BXkMs

— Katie Rogers (@katierogers) June 1, 2020

Appealing to Trump's concern for the well-being of others is a waste of perfectly good breath.

But that's okay.

sorry but it sounds like buck passing when comfortable libs whine about Russia every time something bad happens here... ESPECIALLY when the things they’re whining about are indistinguishable from what we do in other parts of the world, with the blessing/ direct input of the very people doing the whining, eg Susan Rice.

i still hate having a billionaire governor, but nice one there JB. sure, it may not compare with the devastating zingers we inflict on trump during the imaginary arguments with him that many of us have on an ongoing basis. but it's all too rare to see people frankly criticize him at length to his face (via telephone)

George Floyd’s murder and the fallout is a direct result of the unholy intersection of racism, capitalism, and a militarized police force. Not “Russia”.

Trump: I know you are, but what am I
for the 1000th time

you're the rhetoric

the Pritzker/trump exchange is at 51:40

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xhkouev0cp8

Right. Russia is a minor player compared to the history of US society. They do not have control over our past or all the home grown racism and greed that is working itself out in the streets right now. Like the Shiite-Sunni animosity that US policy takes full advantage of, US racism and capitalism were not Russian inventions, but they are Russian opportunities. If you can't see how massive, anonymous flooding of FB and Twitter with agitprop that pushes people further into opposing corners has had a detrimental effect, I can't make you see it.

The Sunni-Shiite analogy I already gave is concrete and apt. A different analogy would be how a fir tree seedling supplies all the power of growth to make a trunk, branches, twigs and needles and merely follows the instructions in its DNA, while sun and water and air are all supplied by the natural environment. But, with some intervention, a bit pruning and shaping, it can be encouraged to look like a Christmas tree instead of a normal fir tree.

Russian intervention is a very little piece of the whole story, but it is true they have done some of the pruning and shaping that got us to here. Susan Rice is not wrong, but she's only right in a very minor and restricted way, and not an especially helpful way to view what is going on.

But fuck the Russians and Putin, too. They are mega-trolling us. The fact that Congress rolled over on this part of the Mueller Report and ignored it is beyond disgraceful.

During his daily covid address on Friday, Pritzker explicitly called Trump a racist, sexist, xenophobe, etc. He splits no hairs with that motherfucker.

"My rhetoric's bigger than yours!"

George Floyd’s murder and the fallout is a direct result of the unholy intersection of racism, capitalism, and a militarized police force. Not “Russia”.

It can certainly be both, and likely is imo. First three are indisputable, but Russia seems pretty adept at utilizing misinformation to stir shit. As adept or more than our own homegrown shit stirrers.

wait by law and order does Trump mean responding to congressional subpeonas

the misinformation is coming from inside the country. punditry is much louder than journalism now, rumours get out of control, and we have a president who actively boosts lunatic fringe theories

No argument from me on that one.

The art of the headline: coming up with something that's just so intriguing, I have to click.

White House defends Trump's handling of protests: 'This President has been leading'

did you read the Mueller Report, treesh? the misinformation is coming from lots of places, including inside the country. one of the Russian tactics is to selectively boost the signal, regardless of the source.

again, this isn't laying everything at their feet. but denying their input is also misinformation.

and, yes, Trump knows all about selective signal boosting. that's one reason they worked hard on his behalf. it does most of their job for them now.

didn't we *just* do this

like a week ago

dunno about *we*, but I didn't write anything like this a week ago and don't recall reading anything like that on ilx.

He means (I think) treeship worried about something or other about Russia and Trump, one of us directing him to the Mueller Report, wash, repeat.

maybe he should read it then

xp yes

someone literally asked treeship if he'd "read the Mueller report" last week

not just a vague wash rinse repeat but the exact same dumb question

Also he's OTM. It should be embarrassing to even mention Russia right now. Russia didn't militarize our cops. Russia didn't make the United States racist as fuck. Russia didn't invent American reactionaries.

it's a fair question

I don't think anyone itt is claiming any of those things?

why would treesh want to read that, it's probably very long and kind of annoying

And also no one asking him actually read the entire fucking thing either

Russia didn't militarize our cops. Russia didn't make the United States racist as fuck. Russia didn't invent American reactionaries.

Gee. And to think I wrote exactly this in this thread just about 25 posts ago. Thanks for shaming me by agreeing with me.

treesh did you ever read the mueller report? (the summaries, i mean)

― Karl Malone, Monday, May 18, 2020 12:14 PM (two weeks ago) bookmarkflaglink

iirc km did read it, and yes many of us read a whole lot of it

I read it. I've also read Musil. Prefer Mueller tbh.

xp - you left out the embarrassing to even mention Russia part ie "they invented agitprop! and kompromat! and"

I find the whole zero-sum game w/r/t Russia almost impossibly stupid

if you believe Russia to be a malign actor, it must also be that you are paranoid and hold them responsible for everything in the world

and mIlo it's the same dumb binary that has made you dn necessary

is everybody here really so dumb as to not understand how more than one thing can be true at a time?

your dn

i'm pretty dumb

People are actively bringing up Russia here it's not really like Biden thread whataboutism.

is everybody here really so dumb as to not understand how more than one thing can be true at a time?

― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII),

Aimless did what you asked for a couple hours ago!

There's a lot of ridiculous macho posturing going on atm, so I'm taking a brief break.

the goddamn President of the United States is hiding in his bunker calling on the cops to crack more skulls

again, the quiet part out loud

cops cracking skulls is the eternal US truth. it backs up everything. Obama and Eric Holder upheld it, as Cornel West said the other night.

they invented agitprop!

nah. they didn't invent, they invented the word, which does say something useful to mention.

alfred I know, that was the proverbial everybody

There's a lot of ridiculous macho posturing going on atm, so I'm taking a brief break.

shit, gotta block some music listicles

by all means block those paragons of ridiculous macho posturing

by gum block the release of those tax returns

There's a lot of ridiculous macho posturing going on atm, so I'm taking a brief break.

you're an essential and much appreciated voice on these threads, Alfred

A little confused about why hating NPR is an example of white guilt-- seems to be more an example of hating equivocating liberal nonsense.

I think my inability to fathom listening to the radio is because I'm never in a car. I'm on my couch all day with my laptop open; if I want to listen to music it's either on Spotify or from my own iTunes collection. And listening to a politician being interviewed by a journalist would be torture.

xp tbc my wite gilt comment was unfunny joekishness and i agree with you.

i don't hear inskeep doing that at all, if anything he's irritatingly left-biased with his snarky "oh so you're saying ....blah blah blah"

A little confused about why hating NPR is an example of white guilt-- seems to be more an example of hating equivocating liberal nonsense.

if anything I wld imagine white privilege is listening to NPR and buying its worldview...it strikes me as the audio balm for quickly assuageable white guilt

these ppl "taking their medicine" on their morning drives to work

not to be too trenchant but ilx picking and choosing specific middle class media/experiences/opinions as more or less privileged is like a group of goldfish arguing which side of the bowl is wetter.

it is striking when the BBC portion comes up on NPR, where the host actually acts "tough" questions AND doesn't (as easily) let the interviewee avoid them. It's like the Americans on NPR are terrified of awkward moments.

asks not acts

BBC radio 4 is a rough start to the day emotionally and it’s politically suspect but it’s not aural cottage cheese and it doesn’t do the “the truth is in the middle” thing to the same extent. I get that npr radio is better than talk radio in the US but that’s a low low bar. It’s the best turd in a pile of turds.

Ha xp

Is it fashionable to dislike NPR?

― sound of scampo talk to me (El Tomboto), Tuesday, June 30, 2020 7:26 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Say, isn't it time for a new thread? Or are we just waiting for Trump to hear what stupid thing Trump barfs out before committing to a thread title?

v v true.

Anyway. You know what I meant and wasn't able to coherently write.

voting for "Denigrating this Luxury Avenue" for July

^

okay, going for it.

I think Rand Paul should get the place of honor this month -- "We Shouldn't Presume That A Group Of Experts Somehow Knows What's Best"

US Politics: July 2020 - "Denigrating this Luxury Avenue"

minus all the capital letters

it is striking when the BBC portion comes up on NPR, where the host actually acts "tough" questions AND doesn't (as easily) let the interviewee avoid them. It's like the Americans on NPR are terrified of awkward moments.