thraed of DOJA CAT

the big thing that frustrated me about this particular incident is that I saw people all over Twitter legitimately asking what Doja did and for details, only to get brush-off responses, like it was this insider knowledge, and you were an asshole if you didn't already know it. It actually took me a while to figure out what the hubbub was about as few people were actually sharing anything helpful about it, or were just sharing the conclusions without sharing any specific details as to what happened.

Most people don't even know what happened, they're just playing Twitter telephone. The same issue arose with regard to Black Dresses and Kaitlyn Aurelia Smith.

A thing occurred and you must now adopt my take on this scandalous thing except I'm not going to tell you what it is because I myself have no idea.

yeah I get sick of the "I'm not going to spoonfeed you, do your own research" responses

Twitter telephone is also famous for fucking up news. the day Kobe died, hundreds of tweeters were claiming (with zero corroboration) that he was the pilot of the helicopter and aggressively arguing with people who suggested there was a separate pilot and Kobe was a passenger, and then they went eerily quiet the moment the news confirmed the latter was true.

Highest paid crisis actor in NBA history iirc.

The thing that’s going to hurt Doja Cat’s longevity isn’t an unearthed 4chan past; it’s not being particularly interesting.

Like, flirting with edgelords 5 years ago is the first thing I’ve seen about her that makes me remember who she is.

the Tolentino thing seems like a pretty strong case of "twitter telephone"

xp her breakout hit was "mooo!" that's something at least

she's apologizing for all of this on instagram live in a shirt that says HENTAI in flames

Where do I get that shirt

i wasn't arguing to 'cancel her' jordan lmao im just saying that i think handwaving flirting w white supremacists online is .. not good

esp since as shes showing in this recent video its not like shes been humbled by any of this, im sure shes just seeing it as another in a line of 'all publicity is good publicity' things & im sure she like tons of ppl on 4chan just see it all as a big joke except when they mean it, so its like ... you literally cant 'shame' that out of someone bc they detach from the consequences of their actions (& per tsrobodo probably dont see their actions as ever having much meaningful agency or effect on the world) (the great irony now being that they're represented by a literal no. 1 pop star)

im not really mad at doja for this or something, more just unsettled by the way this space operates as a like source of fuckd up brainwashing

Based on what I've read, this all seems like pretty fucked up stuff, so i would not seek to take issue with anyone who decided "this artist is no longer for me under any circumstances", but... It does feel to me that at least one fundamental difference between this scandal and the examples j0rds provides above with respect to male artists is not just white supremacy but also... misogyny and domestic violence rarely-if-ever code to the general public as "fake" behaviour (even when/though they are recognised as awful)*, whereas in the particular context of the kind of music doja cat makes, her behaviour is not just merely gross / sad but also can easily be framed as a sign that she is fundamentally a fraud.

Maybe I'm over-keen to make this align with my existing sense that in the current era the historical popular emphasis on judging musical artists by notions of real/fake has just shifted from structural factors to personal politics (e.g. the label you're on is less important than the contents of your twitter feed), but it feels very consistent. Which of course extends well beyond just the way "we" think about music.

I suspect this also plays into doja cat's apparent air of comfort with the blowback: there's almost a hillary clinton-esque "well if i'm gonna be judged regardless I may as well go ahead and get paid to speak to SocGen" air to her insouciance.

*Insert long side-discussion about Chris Brown as the liminal case here.

the Tolentino thing seems like a pretty strong case of "twitter telephone"

― k*r*n koltrane (Simon H.), Monday, May 25, 2020 10:34 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

not really? "human trafficker" might have been an inflammatory phrase, but tolentino's parents took real advantage of desperate filippino immigrants, coaxing them to america with promises of jobs that didn't always materialize and saddling them with more fees than it was possible to pay.

I was referring to her NY media blue check peers and twitter stans reflexively coming to her defense actually

ah.

i mean, i feel that the way it was brought up originally was gross too, as some kind of "gotcha." i don't envy jia tolentino's position. that said, she was dismissive and evasive about the testimony of these immigrants and tried to make it seem like the whole case was fabricated by ICE.

Imagine if twitter existed during 9/11.

...

No, no, stop, don't jump.

i don't envy jia tolentino's position. that said, she was dismissive and evasive about the testimony of these immigrants and tried to make it seem like the whole case was fabricated by ICE.

but also she really did not have to say anything at all. was anyone even talking about it before the post

(sorry for continued derail)

Saying nothing would probably be the smart course of action in 99% of these cars y

Er..cases

it was cool to see identity politics be weaponized to defend human trafficking, I must say. there are literally no depths that cannot be plumbed in this new, exciting age

xp people were talking about it, simon. someone on reddit uncovered the original news coverage of the case and it was making the rounds on twitter.

I really like that “Say So” song.

I've never found myself listening to "Say So" and thinking, "this is really nice but I wish the backing track sounded more like Evanescence's 2002 alt-rock hit 'Bring Me to Life'," but this is...something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGBeV-Hlqaw

2020 popstars revealing their ✨HIDDEN UNTAPPED ROCK CRED✨ (this, Post Malone's Nirvana tribute, https://www.nme.com/news/music/kidding-billie-eilish-reacts-dave-grohl-comparing-nirvana-2459635) could probably be its own thread

"say so" sequel is out

Really disappointing taste in restaurants

https://postmates.com/blog/the-receipt-doja-cats-order-history

i thought maybe the bump would be abt the new album. guess not

i'm having a hard time getting into it all that much. her talent is evident but the production is homogenized in a way that leaves me a bit cold, idk. i like the song w/ ariana grande, it has some cool harmonies, a few of the ones on the back end i fuck with too. it's one of those albums that makes me appreciate the single more, i've been playing "kiss me more" a lot. also liked some of the deluxe songs, the one w/ eve is really fun. hot pink was an imperfect album but it felt more distinct to me than this, like she had leveled up the production while still retaining her identity. this one is bringing her further from that i think but i'm gonna give it a few more chances

kiss me more is a great song, isn't it?

i think so

"kiss me more" is great. the video kind of weirded me out at first.

I really hate everything she’s done and can’t disassociate the ironic racism from her current incatnation

hmm yeah i sort of forgot about that, it is pretty repulsive

Sounds like she’s having a rough week: https://www.eonline.com/news/1324617/why-doja-cat-says-shes-quitting-music

:'(

it is in many ways a shitty biz

Get Into It (Yuh) is really good

the attitude of those fans reminded me of the Mitski blow up when she asked people not to record entire shows on their phones a few weeks ago; massive entitlement from young fans. honestly when I look at any (usually female) musician's twitter or fb followers I fucking cringe with the 'bestie' shit and the deranged amount of importance fans put on their parasocial relationships. I'd fucking quit too.

yeah music fans have always had disordered relationships with artists to some degree but the way in which such emotions can be directly expressed to the artists — who in turn feel compelled to “engage” with their fans — nowadays is clearly unhealthy

Needs to hop back on 4Chan chat for a pick me up

lol milo

is her new album going to be good or will it just make her current badmouthing of her last albums seem embarrassing?

Well she is right that the last two weren’t as good as “Amala”

one thing I can say for Doja Cat is she fucking hates her fans, and I don't blame her

the disgust i'm seeing from some online at her recent statements is so intense, but i don't think anything she's said is that outrageous. like, sure, it's imprudent and disrespectful to say those things openly, but she's definitely far from the only artist who feels that way

Her online fan base is as toxic and dumb as most

I sort of side with her on this, but also feel like, notwithstanding that stan culture is a ubiquitous evil, her music and persona sort of created these particular stans, to an extent

idk what to say this is what always happens when a famous person pals around with racist shitheads

oh my post was about this which has nothing to do with racist shitheads: https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/24/entertainment/doja-cat-nickname-boyfriend-music/index.html

(despite the URL saying 'boyfriend' there is nothing in that article about her boyfriend)

I ran across some twitter nonsense about her boyfriend though the other day, which, despite dozens of people calling him a 'manipulator' and 'gaslighter' no one was able to offer any actual details about what that meant other than that he's a twitch streamer who got people to do shit for him for free which...maybe people shouldn't get so invested in twitch streamers that they are doing shit for free?