thraed of DOJA CAT

Yeah, and something else last week.

Wouldn't be surprised if it's an incel campaign

Or a Lana Del Rey stan campaign. Possibly both.

Online is so fucking tiring sometimes.

Wait let me get this straight Imago. So when a comedian you like gets called out for some antisemitic bantz in a national newspaper it's crybullying that must be faced down at all costs, but when a black artist was supposedly laughing along in a white supremacist chat room, despite there being no actual record of this, it's an occasion to rub your hands together with glee? I mean at least be consistent.

i didn't pass judgement! threadbump at least as much about the phenomenon as the crime (if there even was one). didn't you see how i said the KAS 'cancellation' was nonsense? the LDR drama was some crass, crass self-promotion bs - this one isn't artist-driven

stewart lee thing wasn't intentionally (or possibly even accidentally) antisemitic though obviously and it's not a great comparison

online drama wrought by toxic fan culture has in the last 2 days killed a star of a reality tv show (and wrestling) that i watch, and ended the career of one of my favourite bands (black dresses) - i am not here to likewise stick the knife into DC (although i'm obviously no fan)

maybe wasn't worth bumping this thread, but i thought we had a collective duty to stay on top of the Discourse or something idk

also it is disingenuous for you to equate the extremely bad-faith crybullying (yes) of the fucking hard-right pundit circle - people who claim that jeremy corbyn is a racist - with stan drama lol

i should have known better than to click a doja cat thread thinking it would be a suitable alternative to the hillary clinton thread

but seriously

joe biden just got "cancelled" _this fucking week_?

christ. look i'm off to play match three games all fucking weekend.

Partly my fault for linking to that trash website but at least it does justice to the spirit of Twitter quite well.

if we capture the spirit of twitter can we banish it to the land of wind and ghosts?

Gladly!

shame about black dresses

what happened with black dresses?

I did try to search for it but all I got was a lot of posts about cancelled orders from clothes shops

same question ^ i couldn't figure it out either

This thread is more of an explanation than anything else I can find. Which is, not much of one.

Black Dresses breaking up bc they asked tiktok cosplayers to stop doing cutesy edgy lipsync to a song about child sexual assault and got harassed for it, i truly will be burying myself alive

— esther miri rose (@EstherOnFilm) May 23, 2020

FWIW I’ve heard the “Doja doesnt like black guys” rumors a few times before this

it's funny when you stop and think about the total 180 the world did on tyler the creator once he started making aesthetically pleasant music and hanging out w/ solange, & then consider the idea that an artist like doja cat could/should be cancelled over whatever her teenage trolling was

otm

hope black dresses comes back ;_;

I clicked to read more of that thread but occurs to me actually I don't want to know more about that. Fandom: not even once.

I hate the cow song but if someone’s being unfairly cancelled I’m here to defend her, just what I do

Going to look up what happened though. If she did something egregious she’s on her own

Ok this one is actually extremely depressing..... seems she has some self loathing issues that led her to seek out the company of racists and do compromising things on video chats with them.

And the song from 2015?

Yeah, it’s a racist song that picks up on an alt right term. Apparently she was conversant in this type of culture. So that is pretty strong evidence that at least a version of this narrative is true—it’s not all third-hand accounts and blurry screenshots.

Good work, gumshoes

https://www.papermag.com/doja-cat-break-the-internet-interview-2641564531.html she talks about that a little in this interview from last year and it's clearly what people have dug up

she was 19 or 20 in 2015 so while that's old enough for her to really have known better it's pretty easy to forgive her for being real self-loathing about being mixed race

She still frequents the chat room to this day?

The article doesn’t mention the song...

oh i missed that detail that's really bleak if she's still hanging out with those types

that article is from last year before people actually dug up all this stuff this week including the racist song

the stuff has been out there and not really hidden at all for a while it’s just that not enough ppl cared about her until now. that song’s lyrics have been on genius for ages

don't let children get raised by the internet

i didnt realize she was still doing this stuff. thought it was like, i was 14 and too online type thing.

this is p sad

I try not to be political... I'm more like, 'I don't give a fuck,'" Doja pushes back, before reminding me that an artist's intention is just as important as external interpretation. "I never think about what I write. I just write whatever the first thing that comes to my mind is."

ppl who "aren't political" almost always have shitty political beliefs

this is another classic dodge (sub "ism" sometimes)

A beat passes before Doja shrugs. "Like, I just love romance and sex," she says. "It's not a very '-ist' album, because there's nothing '-ist' about what I do."

Her self-hatred runs deep. I'm finding this more depressing than anger-inducing.

yeah perhaps the more apposite tyler comparison is how self-loathing from a complicated identity in a fucked society can sadly have toxic things that come out of it? not sure that insulates anyone from criticism though

willing to bet the vast majority of "problematic" entertainers hate themselves at least a little

There is something vaguely masochistic about exposing oneself so thoroughly to the outside world, especially when you risk becoming a dehumanized object of worship. Incidentally, I empathize with Black Dresses for backing out before it’s too late (although perhaps ‘before’ is a bit of misnomer here).

I mean, they're not dead. They can unbreak up whenever they feel like it.

yeah perhaps the more apposite tyler comparison is how self-loathing from a complicated identity in a fucked society can sadly have toxic things that come out of it? not sure that insulates anyone from criticism though

― Vapor waif (uptown churl), Sunday, May 24, 2020 3:50 PM (three hours ago)

yeah. btw i don't think she should be insulated from criticism, all criticism of her is warranted. i'm just talking about the idea of her career being over. it's interesting how these things play out -- outside of kpop/BTS, male artists don't really have to deal w/ stan army wars and the sort of attendant social media (and then media) attention/scrutiny that comes out of that culture? don't think doja has a stan army but as a woman in pop she is squarely in the arena where fan bases/social media armies mine any/everything you've ever said/done for #[artist]isover parties. the only one i can think of is shawn mendes and the way his affectations have been pored over and memed ad nauseam in relation to speculation over his sexuality. but like, there's a weeknd song that is basically a celebration of gang rape. i have no idea if it's "better or worse" than doja's offensive song but the amount of scrutiny between those two (just as an example) is not comparable. now doja has the real world element of hanging out in these discord chats or whatever, but one of the central figures in the ovo/xo circle was a human trafficker. maybe both should be cancelled idk but it just feels like what is happening to her rn is not a standard applied to many/any male artists. certainly no rappers to speak of. video surfaced of post malone saying the n-word on camera and the world didn't even stop for a second. it's just not consistent.

or think about drake's blackface photo. doja's crimes as it were appear more extensive than drake's but because one came out in the context of a rap beef it's not treated as a piece of offensive material that reflects poorly on the subject -- if anything, it reflected most poorly on the person who revealed it. if doja was in a rap beef & her opponent leaked her offensive song would the world not consider it when weighing her potential cancellation? the standards applied to this stuff are pretty ad hoc

Well, Tyler (mentioned earlier) faced significant mainstream pushback/consequences for his lyrics (UK travel ban, etc.). I understand you’re interested in the specific social media dynamic and why certain artists are targeted — but DC’s career doesn’t seem anywhere on its way to being “over” in an actual sense, this is barely even getting mainstream music press. It was trending on Twitter over the weekend for whatever reason, and a few lines addressing it have been added to her Wikipedia page. I guess we’ll see if that escalates or fades.

i feel a lil weird minimizing her actively hanging w white supremacists tho, thats kind of a beyond the pale sort of situation

the-dream is a multiple time physical abuser, just wrote beyonce's verse for megan the stallion remix. nelly is a multiple time alleged rapist, was just given one of the biggest platforms in music to celebrate his legacy. this stuff pops up on twitter now and again so i'm not saying nobody is talking about it... and doja will probably be fine and have a nice career after this. she doesn't have to go but to her own studio sessions to see a prime example of how forgiving the music industry can be. but i'm willing to bet this will follow her in a way those accusations don't follow those other ppl; and yes hanging out in a 4chan chat is bad, but go read christina milian's interview about what it was like to be married to the-dream. maybe he's on your personal cancel list too i have no idea, but that's not rly my point either.

doja should do a lot of soul searching and come out w/ some better thoughts on the matter than what she posted on instagram, i just look around at what a whole lot of other artists (men) are allowed to get away with (not saying i'm not complicit, i don't boycott the-dream) and find phrases like "beyond the pale" a little ridiculous. roddy ricch was arrested for hitting his gf and there was no grand reckoning w/ his past when he hit number 1 like three months ago. is roddy ricch beyond the pale? again doja can answer for her actions but the way this stuff plays out is just not equal.

Her self-hatred runs deep. I'm finding this more depressing than anger-inducing.

― pomenitul, Sunday, May 24, 2020 1:02 PM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah this seems to have been primarily a self-destructive, compulsive pattern of behavior, or at least it’s been characterized that way. I think that is why she is coming under scorn; it makes people profoundly uncomfortable, the idea of someone seeking out degredation. It’s harder to categorize than other kinds of “bad” behavior that are aimed at hurting others.

I've been a wee bit concerned at the number of people in the Twittersphere saying she's "not really black" because she's mixed and can pass for white.

I mean, that’s horrifying, but the reason they’re doing that is they want to make an uncomfortable scenario fit a familiar schema. If she is not black, she can just be a racist, and cancelled. If she is, then you have to start thinking about what actually motivated the benavior, and it’s some bleak psychological territory.

I really feel like “cancelling” is secondary here. I hope this woman finds peace with herself and this is what I hope for everyone.

Anger toward her is understandable, though, obviously. I’m sure many feel betrayed by this kind of thing. Idk. It’s a minefield.

otm