w/ his fascism comment plax seems to have come around to esby's point which is that bitching on the internet is the same as performing politics
― Mordy, Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:22 (three years ago) link
Of course bitching on the internet is performing politics. Of course there are many other ways that politics get enacted. This is all very easy.
― plax (ico), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:26 (three years ago) link
define your terms people idk wth you mean. who are leftists? what is activism? ineffectual at/for what, to whom, etc
― What's (Left), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:28 (three years ago) link
who are leftists? *comedy answer redacted*
what is activism? seems p self evident: posting on the internet, voting for a 90 yr old white guy, standing in the lobby of a bank 7 years ago
ineffectual at/for what, to whom, etci personally think the leftism project is going fine but the participants themselves don't seem to think so, cf. 20000000000 posts on this website
― lumen (esby), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:40 (three years ago) link
I doubt the question was directed at you tbh.
― Is Lou Reed a Good Singer? (Tom D.), Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:42 (three years ago) link
leftism
It was a great album at the time, not sure how I'd feel about it today.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 17 May 2020 14:44 (three years ago) link
are y'all motherfuckers just mad that we've quarantined the existing political threads, so you've taken to starting new political threads in a desperate attempt to get people to engage with your bullshit?
― Kate (rushomancy), Sunday, 17 May 2020 15:54 (three years ago) link
there is only one functioning politics thread on ilx, dealing with the politics of a functioning country strangely enough
and we havent even sorted out our election results from several months ago
― spruce springclean (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 May 2020 16:30 (three years ago) link
Canada begs to differ.
― pomenitul, Sunday, 17 May 2020 16:34 (three years ago) link
it may beg away it lives in a semi d
― spruce springclean (darraghmac), Sunday, 17 May 2020 16:38 (three years ago) link
my impression is that when the demographics of voting shift (and they will, unless ~changes in mechanics~), there will be little mercy, because none was shown, and the people thus in power are therefore kinda...merciless assholes.
― inveterate practitioner of antisocial distancing (Hunt3r), Sunday, 17 May 2020 20:15 (three years ago) link
The likes of Corbyn and Sanders were the compromise solution. Should demographics take over => guillotine time!
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 17 May 2020 20:47 (three years ago) link
the anger of the toiling masses is as nothing compared to insatiable bloodthirst of the parlor radical
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 17 May 2020 20:52 (three years ago) link
wouldn't count on demographics for another decade at least, probably more like 15 years
― flopson, Sunday, 17 May 2020 20:56 (three years ago) link
Demographics aren't going to combat contemporary capitalism. Jeff Bezos's zillions aren't going to disappear when he finally eats it.
― Greta Van Show Feets BB (milo z), Sunday, 17 May 2020 21:37 (three years ago) link
idk if he eats his money it will quite literally disappear
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Sunday, 17 May 2020 21:38 (three years ago) link
https://communemag.com/
― sarahell, Monday, 18 May 2020 04:21 (three years ago) link
Esby is a VL
― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Monday, 18 May 2020 05:08 (three years ago) link
and you sir are an R lmao
― lumen (esby), Monday, 18 May 2020 05:18 (three years ago) link
Folks, you know what to do
― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Monday, 18 May 2020 05:33 (three years ago) link
https://i.ibb.co/QD8C8QQ/rolleyes7cm.gif
― lumen (esby), Monday, 18 May 2020 05:51 (three years ago) link
i don't understand VL and R and what any of that is ... just that commune mag is shutting down partly because one of its (former) editors was called out as a rapist
― sarahell, Monday, 18 May 2020 07:24 (three years ago) link
I mean,you could guess what he means by R. Pretty obvious
― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Monday, 18 May 2020 08:16 (three years ago) link
esby ist eine verbotene Liebe.
― peace, man, Monday, 18 May 2020 10:10 (three years ago) link
R Kelly?
― sarahell, Monday, 18 May 2020 17:18 (three years ago) link
mein geist ist sagen mir NEIIIIIIINNNNN
― I am a free. I am not man. A number. (Neanderthal), Monday, 18 May 2020 22:42 (three years ago) link
i personally think the leftism project is going fine
probably should be letting this thread sink down the page into oblivian but I just wanted to thank you for this, I have had an especially miserable day but for real snarfed my beer when I read this and feel better now
― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 01:47 (three years ago) link
whatever happened to the Oblivians?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 19 May 2020 15:04 (three years ago) link
we got the Reigning Sound, which was even better
― Yanni Xenakis (Hadrian VIII), Tuesday, 19 May 2020 15:24 (three years ago) link
Loudlybtelling you all to read this interview with the Out of the Woods collective:
On the ecological roots and uneven effects of COVID-19, communist technics and agroecology, "Planet of Humans" and ambient volkishness, putting disaster communism in a field of ecological ideologies, and staving off fatalism during breakdown and crisishttps://t.co/c4unfPrdLu— Kai Bosworth (@kaibosworth) May 14, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 11:37 (three years ago) link
The now well-documented failings at Commune magazine are not Commune's failings alone. Out of the Woods stands in solidarity with the survivor, but understands this solidarity to extend to an examination of our own structures. This statement addresses theses issues and commits to further actions.
Content note: rape, failures of accountability
In December 2019 we became aware that a founding editor of Commune magazine, in which we have published, is a rapist. In addition to writing for Commune in late 2018, some of us have personal connections with people who have been involved in Commune’s editorial team. For one OotW member these are close ties of friendship.
We were encouraged by Commune's initial response, which included the rapist stepping down from involvement, a restructuring of their editorial collective and a commitment to an overhaul of accountability processes. We also resolved to keep an eye on developments. We should have made this resolve public. We are now saddened and angered to learn of significant and persistent failings by Commune, which contributed to: 1) the breakdown of the rapist’s accountability process; and 2) a failure for Commune to make itself accountable.
These failings have been carefully detailed by the survivor, Leila Raven, here. We offer our unstinting solidarity to Raven, and reiterate her demand for Commune to cease operations and distribute any remaining funds to Black-led survivor movements. We also note that Raven and one of her supporters in the accountability process have expressed disappointment at the uneven distribution of the labour of accountability within Commune. This corresponds with our understanding: that it was disproportionately undertaken by female survivors within the Commune collective, and was hindered by the disengagement and poor communication of others.
Further, we fully agree with Leila Raven: this is not Commune's failure alone, but is part of a much broader and persistent failure on the left – and in particular on the white left – to develop an adequate, sustainable approach to accountability. We are part of this left. Further, we are acutely aware of the similarities between Commune and ourselves: namely, that we are a geographically disparate collective, many of whom have not met each other; that we are too white; and that we have no accountability procedures in place. We are also overwhelmingly male. We thus hear Raven’s call for further accountability to be addressing us, and to provide clarity, urgency and additional requirements to changes to our collective to which we had already committed. We are hugely grateful for this, and for the labour of abolitionist accountability movements more broadly.
We believe it is incumbent on us to create these processes now, before they are called upon. Measures for transparency and accountability must be in place before an episode of violence or abuse is brought to light, not after. This is a clear lesson from the failures at Commune.
We are thus committed to developing a procedure through which people can raise concerns about either the collective as a whole or individual members thereof, with clear expectations for how this information will be acted upon. We will ensure this statement is easily accessible. This will be complicated by the fact that some of our members maintain a degree of anonymity for security/employment reasons, but such an issue should not be an excuse for us collectively. We will be publishing more on this as soon as we can, and no later than the end of June 2020.
We have already committed to expanding core membership of Out of the Woods to address the disproportionate number of white men involved. Leila’s post reminds us of the importance of this task. It also leads us to commit to new members: 1) being empowered to determine Out of the Woods’ direction of travel, in all senses; 2) not being burdened with the labour of making us accountable. Accordingly, we will be putting in place onboarding procedures.
In the meantime, if you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact any, some or all of the below. Not everyone currently active in the collective is listed as some members wish to remain completely anonymous.
― sarahell, Wednesday, 20 May 2020 19:07 (three years ago) link
from US Politics thread
In the better world where all housing is social (either state-owned or communes or co-ops of somekind) or personally owned, we wouldn't be evicting people for failure to pay, obviously. In the event that someone was so loud (or whatever) it became a problem - which comprises what percentage of evictions? - then we're going to have to work up a system for how to deal with it! Perhaps after various processes of noise abatement fail, we'll have social housing for noisy people.
If only it were so simple ... like, if only money didn't exist or the only problems with shared housing were noise violations. If only ... there are so many complex issues I have observed (mostly in terms of the aftermath / dealing with fallout and mess). Some of them are very "damned if you do, damned if you don't"
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:12 (three years ago) link
Vienna has one of the best housing situation in the western world and it's a very complex system that uses a mix of social housing, a whole set of rent control that varies rather wildly and new developments, it works much better than what we see throughout the US and Canada. Simple solutions for complex problems never work for anything, it's rather the opposite in my opinion.
― Van Horn Street, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:19 (three years ago) link
I'm not suggesting that the only conceivable problem is having a 26-piece drum set in your one bedroom apartment, that was an example - but the greater point is that whatever problems arise, they would not be dealt with by evictions as we know them today. In a socialist future where housing is a guaranteed right, we would have to create a system to deal with these issues.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:38 (three years ago) link
ie no one should ever be rendered unhoused under any circumstances, which is what evictions are in our current world.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:39 (three years ago) link
here are some of the issues I have observed that have led to evictions/threatened evictions in communal/co-op housing outside of failure to pay rent or contribute labor in lieu of payment:
sexual assaultracismhomophobia/transphobiasubstance abusemental illnesscruelty to animals/negligence of care for animalsromantic breakupslack of concern for safety of others in terms of external security (failure to lock doors, etc)slovenliness/bad housekeepinghoardingunsafe construction, maintenance, etc.theftdefending the "wrong person" in a dispute
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:39 (three years ago) link
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, November 10, 2020 10:39 AM (twenty-six seconds ago)
people should have the right to housing, but to me, that means, if they get evicted, there would be other housing available, not that they have a right to stay where they are no matter what.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:42 (three years ago) link
That would be the system I'm talking about that has to be figured out.
Perhaps after various processes of noise abatement fail, we'll have social housing for noisy people.
Regardless, you're pointing to various outlier cases for eviction but those are not the prime movers of eviction in our world - Nazis running dogfighting rings are not running up the getting kicked out numbers. Women, persons of color and families with young children are more likely to be evicted than other persons or groups.
Once you take rent out of the equation, you're simply dealing conceptually with far fewer cases overall.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:49 (three years ago) link
Let me know when the goalposts are in their permanent position, milo.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:55 (three years ago) link
? That was in the part you quoted initially.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:56 (three years ago) link
Like, the entire last half of what you quoted is about the need in an evictionless/landlordless society to deal with problem cases.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 18:57 (three years ago) link
you were arguing that evictions shouldn't happen ever.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:00 (three years ago) link
and the things you were saying, and the ways you were saying them, made it sound to me that you really are trying to re-invent the wheel, and like, you have little experience or knowledge of actual practice of communal/co-op housing in the US.
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:03 (three years ago) link
Simple solutions for complex problems never work for anything
tell that to finlandhttps://www.theguardian.com/housing-network/2017/mar/22/finland-solved-homelessness-eu-crisis-housing-first
― marg bar āmrikā (||||||||), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:04 (three years ago) link
which is why I revived this thread ... as people actually "doing the work" will likely shake their heads in recognition of the unfortunate real problems that radical housing has. And I am not advocating for the status quo here, I'm saying, "people are messy. community is messy. The work can be hard."
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:05 (three years ago) link
Yes, and I repeated it like five posts ago - no one should ever be rendered unhoused under any circumstances.
That's what an eviction in our world is. You don't get kicked out after failing to pay rent for 90 days to be moved into another home.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:06 (three years ago) link
How easily can the model be replicated in other European countries?
The Housing First model can be replicated even though housing conditions may vary from country to country in Europe. Providing permanent homes for the homeless should be a target instead of temporary solutions.
There is no quick fix to all life situations but a solid base provides the foundations upon which to improve the welfare of the homeless. The first step in change is the change in attitudes.
― spruce springclean (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:07 (three years ago) link
id need to know a lot more about the housing situation in finland before i was in any way convinced anywhere else in the word had one simple finnish step to success tbh
― spruce springclean (darraghmac), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:08 (three years ago) link
I wasn't asked about "communal/co-op housing in the US," I was asked, in what you quoted, about the principle behind an objection evictions and landlords.
That principle is centered in no one should ever be rendered unhoused under any circumstances. It's also fundamentally a question of remaking society, because you have to get rid of the landlords doing 99.9% of the evicting to start with.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:09 (three years ago) link
so, in the meantime while we're waiting for the abolition of private ownership of real estate, what should we do, milo?
― sarahell, Tuesday, 10 November 2020 19:10 (three years ago) link
associated with a political persuasion
some DSA dude harassed my friend online
This is the assumption that I'm referring to. There hasn't even been an accusation that "DSA dudes" harassed anyone's friends, but that's the thread being run with?
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:35 (three years ago) link
Like if some DSA dude harassed my friend online, I'd be pretty loathe to go to my local DSA for the first time. Don't really understand why that's so hard to grasp.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:20 (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
but all that was claimed was that people, who might be the kind of people to go to a dsa meeting because they have leftist opinions, would be there and subsequently it was implied that it was unsafe.
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:43 (three years ago) link
I guess I didn't take it that way. I took it as 'some DSA-associated people harassed my friend, and I don't feel good going to a DSA meeting as a result.'
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:59 (three years ago) link
but surely those would also be unsafe?
― plax (ico), Saturday, November 14, 2020 4:35 PM (thirty-eight minutes ago)
not necessarily, there are plenty of groups that don't have "those dudes" in them because they were formed by people who didn't want to have to deal with "those dudes"
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:15 (three years ago) link
but how can you be sure?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:18 (three years ago) link
they restrict membership to womxn and non-binary ppl?
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:19 (three years ago) link
like one way to not have to deal with "those dudes" is to not allow dudes in yr group?
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:20 (three years ago) link
so the "specific category" is men or leftist men?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:25 (three years ago) link
it seems a bit far to literally say that this organisation specifically is unsafe though don't you think?
I will leave it to each individual what they deem safe or unsafe for themselves.
― Van Horn Street, Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:32 (three years ago) link
so would i. but there is a difference between saying something would make you feel unsafe and something is unsafe
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 01:35 (three years ago) link
why on earth would you think I'm saying that someone is not entitled to feel how they feel?
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 02:22 (three years ago) link
dsa guy and his twitter gf pic.twitter.com/Rn4FnSUqTZ— the once again welfare king (@singlepayertom) November 14, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Sunday, 15 November 2020 12:56 (three years ago) link
Pretty incredible how a bunch of dudes keep questioning the logic and making fun of a woman who noted that there are a ton of really abusive assholes associated with the DSA online, and that she thus didn't feel safe going to meetings of the DSA. Really beginning to understand more and more why ILX is such a boys club.
― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 14:56 (three years ago) link
I don't see anybody making fun of anyone or questioning the logic of not wanting to go
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 15:27 (three years ago) link
in fact as far as I can see every poster has affirmed the idea that if one feels uncomfortable for whatever reason then one is being perfectly reasonable in declining to go
― plax (ico), Sunday, 15 November 2020 15:47 (three years ago) link
how about joining the group, expressing your concerns about the individual in question to the individual in question, and then if the issue is not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns about the individual in question privately to the leader(s) of the group, and then if the issue is still not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns to the entire group?
― the burrito that defined a generation, Sunday, 15 November 2020 16:26 (three years ago) link
Yesterday @nycDSA endorsed 6 *amazing* candidates for City Council.It's been one of the joys of our lives to be a part of the @DSAForTheMany slate & so @JabariBrisport and I wanted to properly pass the baton on to our new brothers & sisters in #DSAfortheCity.📸: @karakul pic.twitter.com/KDuIfMg89V— Zohran Kwame Mamdani (@ZohranKMamdani) November 15, 2020
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:15 (three years ago) link
lol they gave them roses like in The Bachelor, drove around the city to all 3 candidates they're endorsing and took pics for the soc media. Genius! That was yesterday--today they're doing the Brooklyn ones apparently. I love to see it <3
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:16 (three years ago) link
We started the day with @tiffany_caban.A career public defender, Tiffany's running in District 22 - my home district!When she ran for DA, she radically redefined safety so that it leaves none of us behind. Her fight continues this year & she won't stop until justice is won. pic.twitter.com/nDEXZgMGWO— Zohran Kwame Mamdani (@ZohranKMamdani) November 15, 2020
― Ima Gardener (in orbit), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:19 (three years ago) link
tbf, though it's been a while since I've personally heard of such cases (again, off twitter), there were definitely some instances where the formal group/chapter mechanisms for dealing with abusers/offenders were clearly not adequate
― it bangs for thee (Simon H.), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:24 (three years ago) link
zohran rocks
― mellon collie and the infinite bradness (BradNelson), Sunday, 15 November 2020 17:37 (three years ago) link
assholes associated with the DSA online
We just cleared that up but you decided to dip back to it for some reason, that's not a claim anyone has made.
― onlyfans.com/hunterb (milo z), Sunday, 15 November 2020 20:10 (three years ago) link
Your local DSA chapter pic.twitter.com/ZsdNukqDKs— Voodoo Pork (@Voodoo_Pork) February 18, 2020
― john shopkins (naus), Monday, 16 November 2020 07:40 (three years ago) link
lol
― imago, Monday, 16 November 2020 08:51 (three years ago) link
The next Obama is in DSA right now trying to score— Khaled 🚌 (@kboulos79) November 18, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Thursday, 19 November 2020 14:20 (three years ago) link
yeah true maybe they should roll up into state capitols heavily armed
― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 16 May 2020 18:13 (eight months ago) bookmarkflaglink
Woahhhh hang on a sec what did this guy know
― scampsite (darraghmac), Saturday, 13 February 2021 01:37 (three years ago) link
Hey guy, same thing as anyone else I guess. maga idiots were rolling up into state capitols heavily armed last spring while everyone shrugged. and that if anyone left of David Frum were to do anything but bitch on the internet they’d be mowed down in a matter of minutes
― Washington Generals D-League affiliate (will), Saturday, 13 February 2021 04:24 (three years ago) link
never 4get
https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/99f19f62d9ed48a084b4c5928d3aa98d/2400.jpeg
― meticulously crafted, socially responsible, morally upsta (Alfred, Lord Sotosyn), Saturday, 13 February 2021 14:04 (three years ago) link