Being a socialist, a radical, or an anarchist is not the same as 'bitching loudly on the internet every day'.

I am.

I guess centrists can perform their politics "in the real world" by doing nothing and not caring "like grown ups"

as one of ilxs centrists, or right wing cunts, depending on yknow, whatever, statement is otm

yeah true maybe they should roll up into state capitols heavily armed

Good summary of centrist foreign policy positions

yelling at the kids is not burning and raving at close of day

burning and raving at close of day is bewailing one's own mortality and how just as you're closing in on the wisdom and vision you sought, your time starts to run out, and your energy flags no matter how jealously you've guarded your powers, and besides the futility of the whole enterprise becomes more transparent and it doesn't seem fair because seen from the right angle it all seems so beautiful but the clarity of your aging eyes forces to you see both that beauty and its pointlessness

being mad at williamsburg is basically going gentle, because it's what all the olds do when they run out of the power to be properly mad

― The Complainte of Ray Tabano, Saturday, November 29, 2014 1:37 PM Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

does being a socialist, a radical, and/or an anarchist necessitate actual activism?

if "activism" means engaging in some kind of related activity, then I'd say yes.

Like voting.

does being a socialist, a radical, and/or an anarchist necessitate actual activism?

Oh boy, ILX! That's where I'm a political activist!

https://media.vlipsy.com/vlips/AibjjLYi/preview.jpg

Does this also work for fascists. Like if you spend all day on nazi websites making racist posts in favour of totalitarian regimes this isn't proactive enough to qualify you as a fascist? Asking for a friend.

It only appears to apply to the left.

Does this also work for fascists. Like if you spend all day on nazi websites making racist posts in favour of totalitarian regimes this isn't proactive enough to qualify you as a fascist? Asking for a friend.

Lock thread. Turn out the lights when you leave.

if the nazis were as inneffectual at achieving their goals as the internet left????? oh my god dude if only

sounds like literal utopia to this jew but i guess you thought you were making some other point

good job responding to this thread guys, rather than leaving in its "one and done" state with just j's reply

w/ his fascism comment plax seems to have come around to esby's point which is that bitching on the internet is the same as performing politics

Of course bitching on the internet is performing politics. Of course there are many other ways that politics get enacted. This is all very easy.

define your terms people idk wth you mean. who are leftists? what is activism? ineffectual at/for what, to whom, etc

who are leftists?
*comedy answer redacted*

what is activism?
seems p self evident: posting on the internet, voting for a 90 yr old white guy, standing in the lobby of a bank 7 years ago

ineffectual at/for what, to whom, etc
i personally think the leftism project is going fine but the participants themselves don't seem to think so, cf. 20000000000 posts on this website

I doubt the question was directed at you tbh.

leftism

It was a great album at the time, not sure how I'd feel about it today.

are y'all motherfuckers just mad that we've quarantined the existing political threads, so you've taken to starting new political threads in a desperate attempt to get people to engage with your bullshit?

there is only one functioning politics thread on ilx, dealing with the politics of a functioning country strangely enough

and we havent even sorted out our election results from several months ago

Canada begs to differ.

it may beg away it lives in a semi d

my impression is that when the demographics of voting shift (and they will, unless ~changes in mechanics~), there will be little mercy, because none was shown, and the people thus in power are therefore kinda...merciless assholes.

The likes of Corbyn and Sanders were the compromise solution. Should demographics take over => guillotine time!

the anger of the toiling masses is as nothing compared to insatiable bloodthirst of the parlor radical

wouldn't count on demographics for another decade at least, probably more like 15 years

Demographics aren't going to combat contemporary capitalism. Jeff Bezos's zillions aren't going to disappear when he finally eats it.

idk if he eats his money it will quite literally disappear

https://communemag.com/

Esby is a VL

and you sir are an R lmao

Folks, you know what to do

https://i.ibb.co/QD8C8QQ/rolleyes7cm.gif

i don't understand VL and R and what any of that is ... just that commune mag is shutting down partly because one of its (former) editors was called out as a rapist

I mean,you could guess what he means by R. Pretty obvious

esby ist eine verbotene Liebe.

R Kelly?

mein geist ist sagen mir NEIIIIIIINNNNN

i personally think the leftism project is going fine

probably should be letting this thread sink down the page into oblivian but I just wanted to thank you for this, I have had an especially miserable day but for real snarfed my beer when I read this and feel better now

whatever happened to the Oblivians?

we got the Reigning Sound, which was even better

Loudlybtelling you all to read this interview with the Out of the Woods collective:

On the ecological roots and uneven effects of COVID-19, communist technics and agroecology, "Planet of Humans" and ambient volkishness, putting disaster communism in a field of ecological ideologies, and staving off fatalism during breakdown and crisishttps://t.co/c4unfPrdLu

— Kai Bosworth (@kaibosworth) May 14, 2020

The now well-documented failings at Commune magazine are not Commune's failings alone. Out of the Woods stands in solidarity with the survivor, but understands this solidarity to extend to an examination of our own structures. This statement addresses theses issues and commits to further actions.

Content note: rape, failures of accountability

In December 2019 we became aware that a founding editor of Commune magazine, in which we have published, is a rapist. In addition to writing for Commune in late 2018, some of us have personal connections with people who have been involved in Commune’s editorial team. For one OotW member these are close ties of friendship.

We were encouraged by Commune's initial response, which included the rapist stepping down from involvement, a restructuring of their editorial collective and a commitment to an overhaul of accountability processes. We also resolved to keep an eye on developments. We should have made this resolve public. We are now saddened and angered to learn of significant and persistent failings by Commune, which contributed to: 1) the breakdown of the rapist’s accountability process; and 2) a failure for Commune to make itself accountable.

These failings have been carefully detailed by the survivor, Leila Raven, here. We offer our unstinting solidarity to Raven, and reiterate her demand for Commune to cease operations and distribute any remaining funds to Black-led survivor movements. We also note that Raven and one of her supporters in the accountability process have expressed disappointment at the uneven distribution of the labour of accountability within Commune. This corresponds with our understanding: that it was disproportionately undertaken by female survivors within the Commune collective, and was hindered by the disengagement and poor communication of others.

Further, we fully agree with Leila Raven: this is not Commune's failure alone, but is part of a much broader and persistent failure on the left – and in particular on the white left – to develop an adequate, sustainable approach to accountability. We are part of this left. Further, we are acutely aware of the similarities between Commune and ourselves: namely, that we are a geographically disparate collective, many of whom have not met each other; that we are too white; and that we have no accountability procedures in place. We are also overwhelmingly male. We thus hear Raven’s call for further accountability to be addressing us, and to provide clarity, urgency and additional requirements to changes to our collective to which we had already committed. We are hugely grateful for this, and for the labour of abolitionist accountability movements more broadly.

We believe it is incumbent on us to create these processes now, before they are called upon. Measures for transparency and accountability must be in place before an episode of violence or abuse is brought to light, not after. This is a clear lesson from the failures at Commune.

We are thus committed to developing a procedure through which people can raise concerns about either the collective as a whole or individual members thereof, with clear expectations for how this information will be acted upon. We will ensure this statement is easily accessible. This will be complicated by the fact that some of our members maintain a degree of anonymity for security/employment reasons, but such an issue should not be an excuse for us collectively. We will be publishing more on this as soon as we can, and no later than the end of June 2020.

We have already committed to expanding core membership of Out of the Woods to address the disproportionate number of white men involved. Leila’s post reminds us of the importance of this task. It also leads us to commit to new members: 1) being empowered to determine Out of the Woods’ direction of travel, in all senses; 2) not being burdened with the labour of making us accountable. Accordingly, we will be putting in place onboarding procedures.

In the meantime, if you have any questions or concerns please feel free to contact any, some or all of the below. Not everyone currently active in the collective is listed as some members wish to remain completely anonymous.

from US Politics thread

In the better world where all housing is social (either state-owned or communes or co-ops of somekind) or personally owned, we wouldn't be evicting people for failure to pay, obviously. In the event that someone was so loud (or whatever) it became a problem - which comprises what percentage of evictions? - then we're going to have to work up a system for how to deal with it! Perhaps after various processes of noise abatement fail, we'll have social housing for noisy people.

If only it were so simple ... like, if only money didn't exist or the only problems with shared housing were noise violations. If only ... there are so many complex issues I have observed (mostly in terms of the aftermath / dealing with fallout and mess). Some of them are very "damned if you do, damned if you don't"

Vienna has one of the best housing situation in the western world and it's a very complex system that uses a mix of social housing, a whole set of rent control that varies rather wildly and new developments, it works much better than what we see throughout the US and Canada. Simple solutions for complex problems never work for anything, it's rather the opposite in my opinion.

I'm not suggesting that the only conceivable problem is having a 26-piece drum set in your one bedroom apartment, that was an example - but the greater point is that whatever problems arise, they would not be dealt with by evictions as we know them today. In a socialist future where housing is a guaranteed right, we would have to create a system to deal with these issues.

I should say 'sexism/harrassment/assault/etc'

it’s fine to dismiss an entire org because of shit experiences esp when the reaction to raising them is this kind of thing

except the part where I said I wasn't doing that? jesus christ

i don't read it as sarcastic.

xp I was going off the suggestion from another post above. I’m sorry if I implied it was your position. it’s not sarcastic though

got it, apologeis

*apologies

but surely the solution is to join and cause a fuss about the culture, that's how things improve

― imago, Friday, November 13, 2020 1:40 PM (yesterday)

hahaha that is the classic hetero cis-white guy response! ... this is why the term "emotional labor" is so common in the QTPOC left, as well as the focus on organizing amongst themselves where they are at the front, as opposed to waiting for the cis-white men (and women sometimes) to STFU.

not saying anyone has to, but wouldn't you have to join first to know?

You don't need to join a group to anticipate how its culture will be affecting you, especially in cases like the very vocal and very web-present dirtbag left.

web-present would be the important part, no?

ie

it’s fine to dismiss an entire org because of shit experiences esp when the reaction to raising them is this kind of thing

No one has described "shit experiences" with their local DSA or any related organization, AFAICT? There's an assumption that these bad people online would be pervasive in this entirely unconnected organization.

You don't need to join a group to anticipate how its culture will be affecting you, especially in cases like the very vocal and very web-present dirtbag left.

― Van Horn Street, Saturday, 14 November 2020 23:21 (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink

it seems a bit far to literally say that this organisation specifically is unsafe though don't you think?

Arguing that a very vocal online presence associated with a political persuasion wouldn't necessarily be present at IRL meetings associated with that political persuasion is more of a stretch, IMHO.

Like if some DSA dude harassed my friend online, I'd be pretty loathe to go to my local DSA for the first time. Don't really understand why that's so hard to grasp.

and there are plenty of progressive / left groups and causes to participate in that aren't the DSA. Like ... this argument just feels kinda absurd to me at this point.

but surely those would also be unsafe?

associated with a political persuasion

some DSA dude harassed my friend online

This is the assumption that I'm referring to. There hasn't even been an accusation that "DSA dudes" harassed anyone's friends, but that's the thread being run with?

Like if some DSA dude harassed my friend online, I'd be pretty loathe to go to my local DSA for the first time. Don't really understand why that's so hard to grasp.

― healthy cocaine off perfect butts (the table is the table), Sunday, 15 November 2020 00:20 (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

but all that was claimed was that people, who might be the kind of people to go to a dsa meeting because they have leftist opinions, would be there and subsequently it was implied that it was unsafe.

I guess I didn't take it that way. I took it as 'some DSA-associated people harassed my friend, and I don't feel good going to a DSA meeting as a result.'

but surely those would also be unsafe?

― plax (ico), Saturday, November 14, 2020 4:35 PM (thirty-eight minutes ago)

not necessarily, there are plenty of groups that don't have "those dudes" in them because they were formed by people who didn't want to have to deal with "those dudes"

but how can you be sure?

they restrict membership to womxn and non-binary ppl?

like one way to not have to deal with "those dudes" is to not allow dudes in yr group?

so the "specific category" is men or leftist men?

it seems a bit far to literally say that this organisation specifically is unsafe though don't you think?

I will leave it to each individual what they deem safe or unsafe for themselves.

so would i. but there is a difference between saying something would make you feel unsafe and something is unsafe

why on earth would you think I'm saying that someone is not entitled to feel how they feel?

dsa guy and his twitter gf pic.twitter.com/Rn4FnSUqTZ

— the once again welfare king (@singlepayertom) November 14, 2020

Pretty incredible how a bunch of dudes keep questioning the logic and making fun of a woman who noted that there are a ton of really abusive assholes associated with the DSA online, and that she thus didn't feel safe going to meetings of the DSA. Really beginning to understand more and more why ILX is such a boys club.

I don't see anybody making fun of anyone or questioning the logic of not wanting to go

in fact as far as I can see every poster has affirmed the idea that if one feels uncomfortable for whatever reason then one is being perfectly reasonable in declining to go

how about joining the group, expressing your concerns about the individual in question to the individual in question, and then if the issue is not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns about the individual in question privately to the leader(s) of the group, and then if the issue is still not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns to the entire group?

Yesterday @nycDSA endorsed 6 *amazing* candidates for City Council.

It's been one of the joys of our lives to be a part of the @DSAForTheMany slate & so @JabariBrisport and I wanted to properly pass the baton on to our new brothers & sisters in #DSAfortheCity.

📸: @karakul pic.twitter.com/KDuIfMg89V

— Zohran Kwame Mamdani (@ZohranKMamdani) November 15, 2020

lol they gave them roses like in The Bachelor, drove around the city to all 3 candidates they're endorsing and took pics for the soc media. Genius! That was yesterday--today they're doing the Brooklyn ones apparently. I love to see it <3

We started the day with @tiffany_caban.

A career public defender, Tiffany's running in District 22 - my home district!

When she ran for DA, she radically redefined safety so that it leaves none of us behind. Her fight continues this year & she won't stop until justice is won. pic.twitter.com/nDEXZgMGWO

— Zohran Kwame Mamdani (@ZohranKMamdani) November 15, 2020

how about joining the group, expressing your concerns about the individual in question to the individual in question, and then if the issue is not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns about the individual in question privately to the leader(s) of the group, and then if the issue is still not settled to your satisfaction, expressing your concerns to the entire group?

tbf, though it's been a while since I've personally heard of such cases (again, off twitter), there were definitely some instances where the formal group/chapter mechanisms for dealing with abusers/offenders were clearly not adequate

zohran rocks

assholes associated with the DSA online

We just cleared that up but you decided to dip back to it for some reason, that's not a claim anyone has made.

Your local DSA chapter pic.twitter.com/ZsdNukqDKs

— Voodoo Pork (@Voodoo_Pork) February 18, 2020

lol

The next Obama is in DSA right now trying to score

— Khaled 🚌 (@kboulos79) November 18, 2020

yeah true maybe they should roll up into state capitols heavily armed

― A-B-C. A-Always, B-Be, C-Chooglin (will), Saturday, 16 May 2020 18:13 (eight months ago) bookmarkflaglink

Woahhhh hang on a sec what did this guy know

Hey guy, same thing as anyone else I guess. maga idiots were rolling up into state capitols heavily armed last spring while everyone shrugged. and that if anyone left of David Frum were to do anything but bitch on the internet they’d be mowed down in a matter of minutes

never 4get

https://storage.googleapis.com/afs-prod/media/99f19f62d9ed48a084b4c5928d3aa98d/2400.jpeg