love* in the time of plague (and by love* i mean brexit* and other dreary matters of uk politics)

perhaps I should have written "quarantine plan". what a mess.

I see that the UK has agreed to exempt travelers from France from its quarantine plan. I gather this is mostly to assuage tourism, on both sides?

Given the importance of cross-channel trade to the British economy I don't really think the government would be able to say any different, even if they're threatening to seriously disrupt that link at the end of the year.

French coronavirus scientifically softer, tastier, more pliable that coronavirus from other countries

'guided by science' - quelle blague

Shame that bald men fighting over a comb have life or death implications for some.

The only way that Labour policy will save anyone's life is if the Tories can be either persuaded or forced to adopt it. They aren't going to adopt a policy they are opposed to with every fibre of their being especially if it turns out to be undeliverable.

Does that trade require much travel in person? I genuinely don't know. I read enough English-language news about France to know that British retirees make a lot of fuss about being able to travel between Britain and their country homes in the Dordogne, to know that there's at least some political pressure being applied. Maybe this is a preview of how the British government will end up folding on its current No Deal plan.

"The only way that Labour policy will save anyone's life is whether the Tories can be either persuaded or forced to adopt it."

That isn't true in this particular case. There are specific work safety regulations that are at risk of being breached here. Starmer should cite those and support workers at risk to stay away or for them to organise in workplaces.

Obviously I'm not saying that Labour should only float policies that the Tories might adopt - that would be mindless - but if you're going to float the idea of lives being at stake specifically as a result of what Labour does then the government has to take it on board. Otherwise it's theoretical or about positioning for the next election.

(xpost - sorry, I thought we were talking about rent?)

Sorry I then moved onto work safety after Calzino posted Starmer's quote.

I think on rent it's about a look to your base, which side are you on. It doesn't matter if the government doesn't adopt your policies. Like, we know this. The response is an indication of what would be the offering at the next election and that isn't looking good.

I missed the Srnicek tweet upthread. I was specifically talking about the rent issue, not batting the question off in the interview. I agree that was feeble.

I mean, the obvious interpretation of the Jon Stone tweet is that it's the "agree with union" that Starmer's anxious about.

The clips i've seen look like it was a pretty solid performance, for the most part, but I can see why his tone / language aggravate people - everything is 'surprising' or 'disappointing' rather than 'wrong' and 'unacceptable'. It's like he wakes up every morning to be freshly perplexed by how badly the government is letting the side down.

A question that I've been wondering about: do you think the average tory voter at this moment has stronger loyalty towards a) the party, b) Boris or c) the right-wing press? I kinda think it's c.

Keeping Labour out.

Isn't it more d) the State, and its ability to protect them? xp

there are definitely Tories on social media taking the piss out of the new "guidelines" and a lot of that probably relates to the government underestimating centrist Tories's appetite for clear authoritarianism during a blitz.

i think it'll make fuck all difference to future voting intentions tho. there's a long way to go. an eternity, even.

TBH I think it's a bit of a fool's errand identifying what the "average Tory voter" thinks right now because there are currently so many of them scattered across such wildly disparate parts of the country. Brexit was the big one but I'd be surprised if loyalty towards the press or any individual paper was much of a factor given how circulation is plummeting and how distrusted our press is.

also Matt DC otm re: keeping out Labour

also the Tory party - the right wing in general - has always been a warring coalition of coke-crazed full libertarians and old-school full Francoistas

Commitment, above all, to capital letters British Common Sense, which is shaped by the right-wing press, the Tories, etc, but not beholden to any one element.

it's on record that the GBP have the lowest trust of their media than anywhere in the EU28 yet they lap up some of the most blatantly dumbass propaganda that even Goebbels would have baulked at! wtf gives

When it really comes down to it, tory voters will be loyal to the tories through absolutely anything, right up to the point labour start to look & act temporarily like a more funky tories. We cannot count on them for anything, even in an eternity

Oh thank fuck, The Sweeney has started, I was about to put my foot through the telly watching Sky News where they've dug up some new cunt from Spiked I've never seen before to act as talking head - you can guess what he's saying.

is it "the lockdown is a very necessary and important public health measure which has saved lives but doesn't go nearly far enough"?

i heard a bit on the radio about the government advising what people can do on a sport-by-sport basis. kinda lol, mostly kill kill kill

also, while i recognise the very real financial and contractual issues pressing on football at the moment, anybody trying to get a restart in the next 3-4 weeks is at best a complete fucking moron

I don't listen to #R4Today anymore as it's the worst way to start the day, but had to go and see if Dominic Raab had really blundered into admitting that low-paid workers were being sent out to work while white-collar professionals got to stay safe at home and it's unbelievable! pic.twitter.com/aRm9P0B6pG

— Genevieve Adeline (@Book_Folk) May 11, 2020

"worst way to start the day" is giving Nicky Campbell and Piers Moron and those twats on BBC Breakfast a lot of undeserved credit

today's presser has been cancelled, wonder how long they'll keep turning up to Today

Clarification from UK Govt:

You can meet one person from outside household in park etc if you follow social distancing

You CANNOT meet two - such as both parents - at the same time

Applies to England only

— Nick Eardley (@nickeardleybbc) May 11, 2020

^ This after Raab, quite reasonably had said it was ok. i mean, have these people not heard of triangles?

what about if i go to meet my mum in the park and my wife meets my dad six feet away, am i only allowed to speak to my mum

Lmao!

everything is 'surprising' or 'disappointing' rather than 'wrong' and 'unacceptable'. It's like he wakes up every morning to be freshly perplexed by how badly the government is letting the side down.

I haven't heard him speak since I learned that he sounds exactly like a muppet, and can't see that changing any time soon but I don't have a problem with this kind of language per se.

One of Labour's long standing issues going back decades has been around perceptions of credibility and professionalism (and on a gut level it seems at least some of the public appear to believe that the opposition is an actual wing of the government...which in a weird way 2017-2019 was even sort of true)

I don't know how much mileage there is in taking the moral high ground when the practical high ground might be better.

Everyone knows the tories are unacceptable and wrong, but there is a perception at least they know where the goal is. Attacking them on their weak spot doesn't work.

and because Labour are seen as a de facto permanent opposition, they're just this thing on the sidelines always criticsizing, because thats all they do, thats all they've ever done, always carping never contributing

Yeah, i get why he does it but i can also see why his critics to the left find it infuriating.

Lads people are dying unnecessarily, if you don’t get angry about this what will you get angry about?

When I say I would like some more forceful opposition from starmzy I’m not really thinking about 2024 or whatever, more that there’s a catastrophe on the doorstep and people are being told to go back to work. If nothing labour does will have any effect on govt policy why not err on the side of actually saying something? This stuff has to be coming from somewhere, it won’t just magically enter the “national conversation”

People getting most fucked by this are BAME workers, casual workers, London workers, low-paid workers - all the people a Labour Party should be speaking up for.

all the people the government has just told to go back to work

“back”

i mean maybe being a tiny tiny bit angry-looking might be acceptable to the great British public or look like something an actual human being might do

xp well yeah

(1)Nick Thomas-Symondsreally struggling on #R4Today trying to avoid the q "should workers refuse to work if they feel it's unsafe"? What's really weak is there is a decent not-too-scary Labour Party answer and it's "Ask their union rep. And if they aren't in a union , join one"

— Solomon Hughes (@SolHughesWriter) May 11, 2020

it would be if starmzy et al didn’t think unions were a detriment to the party rather than its strength

BBC broadcasting a forensic response to the PM tonight at 18:55 this will be interesting.

oh boy

just listening to a former Ofsted bigwig on the news and remembering why everybody stopped trusting "experts" in the first place

When I say I would like some more forceful opposition from starmzy I’m not really thinking about 2024 or whatever, more that there’s a catastrophe on the doorstep and people are being told to go back to work.

I'm afraid when people itt talk about the next election my eyes glaze over, I can't really think that far ahead at the moment.

it would be if starmzy et al didn’t think unions were a detriment to the party rather than its strength

Aren't they the ones who put him there?

No it was also lots of dodgy right-wing billionaire donors and hundreds of thousands of melted brains that had more of role in putting Starmer there. But the some of the biggest unions didn't help for sure!