I wonder how long it's gonna take them before they're going to say 'mistakes were made' - there hasn't even been a prerelease yet!
― iatee, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 02:57 (four years ago) link
you can play arena on a Mac if you do some annoying shit. both my gf's brothers have it set up on their MacBooks
because my Mac is also essentially my workplace I don't wanna run Wine/Bootcamp, etc, I installed at one point but it created several headaches. However I did buy a refurb'd Dell last week specifically to play Arena, which is tragic, but the prospect of no Magic at all is worse. Arena is pretty much exactly as "it'll have to do" as i suspected but whatever.
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Wednesday, 22 April 2020 14:59 (four years ago) link
Vintage Cube is back on MTGO...kind of suspicious timing
I know it's only at the rare level but Companion also seems like a dud in a Limited setting. It's not really fun to try to draft around them and it's virtually impossible to make a good sealed deck out of any of them but the Highlander one. It's also not fun to play against an opponent to starts with a bomb rare in their hand every game.
ultimately I wish they'd saved the ability counter/ability lord stuff for another set. there's too much stuff going on here already and I don't like how like 90% of the set seems to be in service of its mechanics
― frogbs, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 21:58 (four years ago) link
ciderpress - interested why you say that re: small sets
― Gravel Puzzleworth, Wednesday, 22 April 2020 22:37 (four years ago) link
just that the game's balance has been increasingly unstable ever since they committed to making 4 limited environments per year rather than 2 or 3 plus expansions. also keeps them honest with regards to how much complexity they shove into a set if they have to hold back some ideas for the expansion
― ciderpress, Thursday, 23 April 2020 00:46 (four years ago) link
also means fewer instances where a linear mechanic has one shot to be good enough for standard and they overjuice it to make sure it happens, there was much talk about this during eldraine standard re: food decks.
― ciderpress, Thursday, 23 April 2020 00:54 (four years ago) link
lmaooo I had not seen this, talk about bad timing
https://shop.tcgplayer.com/magic/ikoria-lair-of-behemoths/spacegodzilla-death-corona-void-beckoner
― frogbs, Thursday, 23 April 2020 16:17 (four years ago) link
Never played Arena but I'm cautiously curious about it once it hits Android
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 23 April 2020 16:18 (four years ago) link
yeah they issued a thing on the death corona
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/news/statement-spacegodzilla-2020-04-02
― she carries a torch. two torches, actually (Joan Crawford Loves Chachi), Thursday, 23 April 2020 16:47 (four years ago) link
statement on spacegodzilla
― ciderpress, Thursday, 23 April 2020 17:15 (four years ago) link
I'm cautiously curious about Arena hitting Android, having never played it.
― change display name (Jordan), Thursday, 23 April 2020 17:51 (four years ago) link
Arena is great! I played it so much, I completely burned out and may never play again.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 23 April 2020 19:54 (four years ago) link
how time consuming and/or expensive is it to build a standard deck on there now? i never really gave it a fair shake compared to mtgo since i have cards on mtgo already
― ciderpress, Thursday, 23 April 2020 20:17 (four years ago) link
I think grinding out a full standard deck from zero would take a long time. Getting all the dual lands is a real killer. If you want to open packs instead, I'd guess around $100. I haven't played in a few months, but I doubt much has changed.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 23 April 2020 20:27 (four years ago) link
I would typically drop $20-30 on packs from a new set and grind out the rest to keep my decks up to date.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Thursday, 23 April 2020 20:31 (four years ago) link
had a fun Cube match last night, my Red-Blue artifact/combo deck vs Blue-White control
first two games were massive grinds with lots of topdecks, G2 came down to him decking himself while I also had an empty deck
for Game 3, we both had about 3 minutes on the clock, which is enough to win with little to no resistance, but not enough if you have to actually navigate board states or use planeswalkers. and neither of our decks were exactly fast. so the dilemma was "do I try to win, or keep passing to clock my opponent out?" and I had to switch from one mode to the other every turn or so. anyway, I won in the end
― frogbs, Thursday, 23 April 2020 20:42 (four years ago) link
just sold/shredded over 20k cards off my mtgo account, pretty therapeutic. all i have left now is tickets, my basic lands of choice, and a pauper deck
the collection screen UI is way faster now, shoulda done this back when i was actually playing
― ciderpress, Tuesday, 28 April 2020 18:42 (four years ago) link
https://www.reddit.com/r/BadMtgCombos/comments/bpmc8g/turn_mtg_into_uno_with_one_simple_29card_trick/
― You guys are caterpillar (Telephone thing), Tuesday, 28 April 2020 22:04 (four years ago) link
yeah that lost me about halfway through. major props for figuring that out though
MTGO has Invasion block drafts this week, maaan this game has come a long way since those days. can't believe how clunky some of these cards are
― frogbs, Thursday, 30 April 2020 14:21 (four years ago) link
that was the first good draft format!
― ciderpress, Thursday, 30 April 2020 14:38 (four years ago) link
oh it was definitely better than say Saga block where 8 of the best 10 commons were Black and half the creatures randomly had protection from a color, I'm just stunned by how 2-dimensional this format is considering how excited I was to draft it as a teenager
lotta mana flooding, double blocks, tapping 7 mana to play a dumb 5/5
― frogbs, Thursday, 30 April 2020 15:01 (four years ago) link
yeah it's good not great, the first great draft format was champions of kamigawa
― ciderpress, Thursday, 30 April 2020 15:05 (four years ago) link
remember when the worst thing that could happen to you in a draft was when someone played an Armadillo Cloak
― frogbs, Thursday, 30 April 2020 15:36 (four years ago) link
ok that Flagbearer thing might be one of the worst Limited mechanics of all time, just straight up blanks a bunch of your deck
― frogbs, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:10 (four years ago) link
the 1/1 is just kinda samite healer level annoying but the 2/4 is a mess to deal with
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:42 (four years ago) link
if you're not in black there are very few ways to get rid of it. super annoying because Invasion block is full of "target creature gets XXX" effects and good creature enchantments
― frogbs, Wednesday, 6 May 2020 16:52 (four years ago) link
It's a cool design but blanks too many cards in practice, yeah. I think that way more common in the old days - cards that have interesting abilities but end up not actually being that fun for play
To my surprise, I've actually been enjoying Ikoria draft on Arena more than the last couple sets. Maybe I'm a Timmy at heart because I find it fun to mutate into big monsters (and the mechanic has more decisions than I thought). I also like how most of the Companions greatly affect your draft decisions, but I know not everyone enjoys that tension. If they ever put Ikoria on Quick Draft, they'll have to tune the bots to prioritize RW cycling highly, or else everyone will draft it every time
― Vinnie, Thursday, 7 May 2020 00:09 (four years ago) link
I lied earlier, ended up playing a shameful number of Ikoria drafts. Was similarly surprised, format turned out pretty fun for limited. In my best run I went 7-0 with the GB cost reducer companion guy and other creatures only in the deck. I have now uninstalled Arena to stave off further time spent in a drafting trance. Will reinstall when the next set drops. Glad I don't play constructed, all my free time would be consumed by Arena, probably.
― davey, Thursday, 7 May 2020 12:58 (four years ago) link
Also wishing I could sell my Arena account for a decent price, having all these wildcards and a good collection and zero interest in constructed, but the secondhand market hasn't to a place where it'd be worth it.
― davey, Thursday, 7 May 2020 13:01 (four years ago) link
*gotten to
i'm getting the itch to play again but gonna try to wait until the fall set to go all in
― ciderpress, Thursday, 7 May 2020 14:34 (four years ago) link
yeah it's a fun set, very swingy and almost cube-like in how big plays can just come out of nowhere. I think that playing it on MTGO/Arena paper over the set's main flaw, that it's just too complex and requires a pretty comprehensive knowledge of the rule book. it's not just Mutate creatures with walls of text or the fact that you're frequently stacking 3+ triggers, it's the fact that all these different keywords and abilities interact in strange ways - for example Monstrous Step on a Menace creature forcing your opponent to double block even when they don't want to
― frogbs, Thursday, 7 May 2020 17:42 (four years ago) link
Ya, the conveniences of the online platforms (enforcing rules, remembering triggers, pairing up matches quickly etc.) make me wonder whether there's a bright future for paper magic, or at least whether I'll play much paper magic in the future.
― davey, Thursday, 7 May 2020 22:30 (four years ago) link
i think magic fades away in like 5-10 years max if they stop making the paper game
― ciderpress, Thursday, 7 May 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link
Mutate is probably the first time I'm not happy with how they handled the look for a mechanic on Arena. They're usually pretty good about making it intuitive, but it should have looked a bit more like paper, where you could hover over a mutated creature and see the whole stack of cards easily. Putting all the abilities on the top card becomes too hard to read past two creatures. And putting the names of the Under creatures on the top with no link to the actual card is next to useless
And yes, much more complex interactions than previous sets. I don't know why they put cards like Monstrous Step, Mystic Subdual, and Reptilian Reflection (try mutating onto it, over or under) in this set. There's also some incidental counters, for example Blood Curdle, that are easy to miss
― Vinnie, Thursday, 7 May 2020 23:57 (four years ago) link
so my latest sealed pool has a Quartzwood Crusher and Jengantha. obviously my deck is better if I start with the Jengantha in my hand every game but it means I can't play a bomb rare that's in my colors. laaaame
― frogbs, Sunday, 10 May 2020 01:00 (four years ago) link
god Lutri is so busted in Limited, it's like starting with 9 cards in your hand every game. just a whole new level of broken
― frogbs, Monday, 11 May 2020 20:43 (four years ago) link
Lutri is obv worth the usually minuscule tradeoff of not playing duplicates, but I did have a RW cycling deck that I had to severely weaken when I picked up Lutri in pack 3, to the point where I'm not sure I even should have
― Vinnie, Monday, 11 May 2020 23:26 (four years ago) link
I've played most of the Companions in draft but never managed to make a Lurrus deck until today. I am used to passing him but today I was going RW cycling and only had the 2-mana payoffs when I saw him in pack 2 - only card I had to cut was a Marmoset. I even ended up splashing an Ominous Seas but never got to make an 8/8. One of the best and most fun decks I've had this format
― Vinnie, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 04:48 (four years ago) link
Companion creates some super awkward deckbuilding decisions in Limited, like wtf am I supposed to do with this
https://i.imgur.com/LRnSVST.png
wound up using Jegantha as a companion and just having to sideline two bomb rares
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 14:19 (four years ago) link
Yeah you've mentioned that a couple times and I think most people also hate those kinds of Sophie's choice decisions in deckbuilding that Companions cause more than usual, but I stupidly enjoy them
― Vinnie, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 16:03 (four years ago) link
starting with a bomb in your hand is worth having 3 in your deck is the way I see it
funny you mention Ominous Seas - maybe not first pick worthy but way better in this format that I would have expected. for one, there's a ton of card draw, even beyond the cycling stuff. with 3 Fire Prophecies and a Facet Reader, plus some cycling cards, if I play it Turn 2 it looms large right away. secondly, the games in this format tend to be pretty long. thirdly, it has cycling itself, which I actually didn't know until I actually played it
― frogbs, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 17:02 (four years ago) link
Yeah I think that's about right, most are worth greatly altering your draft for. In addition to getting it guaranteed every game, you can also plan your gameplay well, e.g. ensuring you reserve a good spell to copy with Lutri, or as I just did, trading off your creatures before you drop Lurrus
If it didn't have cycling, I'm not sure Seas would be playable but yes, it has strongly performed. I played against a deck which only played AFAICT three Seas and then all cyclers and draw spells, maybe one removal spell. They made a total of 5 8/8s before I lost
― Vinnie, Tuesday, 12 May 2020 23:53 (four years ago) link
yea Lutri + a card like Rockslide or Mutual Destruction is just game over a lot of the time
Lurrus is the one I'm not sure if I could make work as a Companion (unless I p1p1'd it) but holy shit is it an obnoxious card in combination with Dead Weight & Sleeper Dart. the fact that they gave it Lifelink as well is just lol
the more I play this format the more I realize that being Human is a significant downside, not being able to ramp into your mutate dudes or get the counter from those uncommon keyword lords seems to come into play a lot. otoh the presence of Mutate makes stuff like Durable Coilbug way more playable, I'm wondering if stuff like the 2/4 2G Vigilance dude is better than it looks
― frogbs, Wednesday, 13 May 2020 14:55 (four years ago) link
also I just listened to a podcast arguing that Companion is the worst mechanic of all time, as it hits a bad mechanic Bingo - all 10 cards are being played, several are likely to be banned, it breaks a fundamental rule of the game, & they're non-interactive, since you can't make your opponent discard them and many of them provide an immediate benefit so removal doesn't really help. it definitely warps Limited, even though they're all rares - I'd really like to see the MTGO stats on how often a deck with a Companion beats one without, I know from my own personal results that my win percentage is like, 20 points higher when I've got one. and that's in a format where Companion's downside is pretty significant.
― frogbs, Wednesday, 13 May 2020 17:08 (four years ago) link
it also might produce the first card(s) banned in vintage for power level reasons as restricting doesn't work on a mechanic that bypasses the library
― ciderpress, Wednesday, 13 May 2020 20:46 (four years ago) link
I thought the same re: Lurrus in limited, frogbs, but now that I've made the deck and played against a couple of Lurrus decks, it's definitely strong enough given the right set of cards. In addition to the two commons you mentioned, Springjaw Trap is also excellent. Just draft a few of the many cards that let you return a creature from the GY to keep Lurrus around and it's an extremely consistent strategy. I don't play much Constructed but I'm already getting a little bored of them in Limited so I can imagine how boring it must be in Constructed
Not much payoff for Humans, is there? I made a double Sanctuary Lockdown deck once, and I like having a couple early Humans if I have Of One Mind. Otherwise, non-Humans all the way. Most decks want Mosscoat Goriak over Alert Heedbonder, I believe
― Vinnie, Thursday, 14 May 2020 00:04 (four years ago) link
Yeah that would be crazy to see a Vintage ban. Chaos Orb and Shahrazad need company
― Vinnie, Thursday, 14 May 2020 00:06 (four years ago) link
Not much payoff for Humans, is there? I made a double Sanctuary Lockdown deck once
lol I actually have never seen this card before.
― frogbs, Thursday, 14 May 2020 01:09 (four years ago) link
okay after 11 straight match losses I think I am finally done with this format
just sick of constantly getting bodyslammed by bomb rares and decks that perfectly mutate curve out, having to play against the same stupid companions every single game, playing game after game where I either draw 2 lands or 12.
seriously I think I've gone 2-7 and 3-6 in every friendly sealed outside of the ones where I go 5-1 and get swept in round 3, I have never had a run like this in any format
― frogbs, Friday, 15 May 2020 18:52 (four years ago) link