Bike Lanes, C/D?

^^^^^^^^^

Bike lanes, awesome, useful, use them. Bike paths, though, you are absolutely right about, Mary. They do tend to fill up with rollerbladers and families on a toddler-appropriate outing or whatever. Or dates in which one member of the couple obv hasn't been on a bike since age 12. If the road has a shoulder and traffic is reasonable, it's probably easier to ride there than on a bike path full of strollers.

oh yeah, the lake front path in chicago is the single most dangerous place to ride a bike in the city, no doubt. would rather ride western, drunk, on a saturday night than take my chances on the LFP on a summer weekend. rollerbladers, fat people strolling, children darting out from nowhere, aggro roadies on TT bikes str8 chargin, i get chills just thinkin about it

The ride up from the Pulaski Bridge to Astoria is nice, though, and you can already sort of follow the river without using the bike path. Even the weird industrial parts of LIC are sort of interesting, I think. I saw a car on fire under the Queensboro Bridge once.

Plus it will take you right past LIC bar and they're nice and have a backyard and a good grilled-cheese sandwich.

Sorry I didn't ansewr yr email about bike stuff, Mary, but I don't have a bike this summer (yet), and I'm about to leave for Michigan so I'm a little crazed. You've probably already got everything you need anyway!

I know riding on the sidewalk is against the law, but it seems kind of silly to me. I will try to be good though.

I had an image of riding along the river with the wind in my hair, but the street by the river is fairly
unpopulated, so it's not too bad.

My worried with bridges are that my legs are not strong enough to get me up the inclines.

No worries, Laurel. I'm learning little by little. Still don't have a lock, though.

Bike lanes in London can be a bit classic or dud on a case by case basis - different trends in traffic control have resulted in a hodge podge of designs. More often than not dud though. There's several examples on my way to work - a bike lane that shares the pavement for a bit, before going out into the traffic before going back on the pavement. Stupid and dangerous for everyone.

All too often they disappear when they're most needed as well - when the road narrows for instance and there is most competition for space.

Far too many bike lanes take you to an advanced stopping point at lights down the left side of traffic, getting you in all kinds of shit if the lights change and you're not a confident rider (ie the riders for whom bike lanes should be most useful), and they encourage you to go inside HGVs and buses - never do it, never do it.

They're usually in the gutter area of the road as well, where there are most obstacles and where you're most likely to get a bad surface and dangerous crap like glass.

I'm really not a fan of contraflow bike lanes either (usually separated from the road by a kerb), partly because they feel counter-intuitive to cycle along, introducing unexpected elements into the traffic flow, and partly because at some point they have to end, and when they do you're going to have to do some nifty manoeuvering across traffic to get back to a good road position.

However, if you don't want to cycle on the cycle path, either because it's dangerous, or it doesn't make sense in terms of where you are going, drivers can often get pissed off feeling that because there is an available cycle lane, you are taking up road space that has already been taken up because of cyclists. This isn't particularly rational, but it does happen.

Having more cyclists on the road tends to result in more driver awareness, and a better road culture for cyclists and indeed for drivers ultimately.

However, they're classic for people who aren't confident about using the road (complete understandable, especially in London) and also produce a more general culture of considering cyclists both in day to day travel and more over-arching road planning policy.

I rarely use them because they're often a bit slow and sometimes fiddly, but I'm on them like a shot when I've got a hangover.

Just go get a nice mid-level U-lock for the time being, I think? Should be okay to tide you over.

However, if you don't want to cycle on the cycle path, either because it's dangerous, or it doesn't make sense in terms of where you are going, drivers can often get pissed off feeling that because there is an available cycle lane, you are taking up road space that has already been taken up because of cyclists. This isn't particularly rational, but it does happen.

yeah, this is a big reason why i don't like them. same w/ riding on sidewalks--drivers see people riding on them and they think you're supposed to so they yell at you to "get on the sidewalk." like how about you drive your car on the sidewalk then.

Yea, I was thinking of going for the $40 U-lock that the lady said would hold my bike for up to an hour.

However, if you don't want to cycle on the cycle path, either because it's dangerous, or it doesn't make sense in terms of where you are going, drivers can often get pissed off feeling that because there is an available cycle lane, you are taking up road space that has already been taken up because of cyclists. This isn't particularly rational, but it does happen.

Totally understand this, because I felt this way in VA on the GW parkway. Lovely bikepath and tons of bikes on the narrow road, forcing me to go into the uncoming lane of traffic to pass them. Someone who rides though told me that serious riders need the tread of the open road.

Having more cyclists on the road tends to result in more driver awareness, and a better road culture for cyclists and indeed for drivers ultimately.

This.

Riding in London was a great experience for me because cars and buses always gave me a wide birth. I didn't ride a lot, though, because I didn't own a bike, so I'm not totally qualified to comment.

Having more cyclists on the road tends to result in more driver awareness, and a better road culture for cyclists and indeed for drivers ultimately.

this (hence my opposition to helmet laws)

the only thing i don't like about bike lanes is if i'm in, say, a bike lane on the right and i need to get over to the left lane to turn. there's also a weird intersection by my house that i won't try to describe, but it involves crossing a lane dedicated to cars turning right from a cross-street in order to get over to the bike lane.

i always worry that drivers will be confused or inattentive if i'm switching from a bike lane to a normal lane or vice versa.

just make eye contact with drivers. make sure they see you. show them where you want to go and smile. works for me usually.

oxford bike lanes are good, i think. you're never segregated by curb unlike in parts of the london network -- just paint -- so car drivers need to keep an eye out, you're part of traffic so you feel justified and not like you're going to suprise anyone by moving out into the main lane when it makes sense (right turns, roundabouts, etc.), and traffic lights always have advanced stop lines.

Regarding my unpopular & pounced-upon admission of sidewalk-riding, I'd like to say in my defense: Most of my adult life has been spent b/w Ann Arbor, MI & NYC. Ann Arbor is a very bike-friendly town & NYC motorists at least have to tolerate cyclists & so must acknowledge/share the road with them. Truthfully, I didn't bike much in the city, so I'll leave that scene for you grizzled vets to argue over. But while living in A2, I always used bike lanes or shared the street w/ cars & stayed off the sidewalks & obeyed traffic laws & was just generally cooperative & responsible as a cyclist.

But here's the thing: I currently live in Toledo, OH. It sucks here & I will be moving back out east soon, but for now I have to do what I have to do. If any of you are familiar with the general urban schematics of Detroit-area rust-belt cities, especially those torn asunder by sprawl (which is pretty much all of them except Ann Arbor), you know that no one, & I mean NO ONE walks along the main thoroughfares. Everyone drives. Period. There are no area-to-area pedestrians whatsoever & the only pedestrian usage of sidewalks takes place in the subdivisions nestled b/w the main routes. If you think I am exaggerating, I invite you to peruse the area of town I live in on GMaps/Street View & count how many pedestrians you see on the main roads.

There are also very few cyclists here. This means that, if you have to take the main roads (which I avoid at all costs - I pretty much have the whole city mapped out b/w neighborhood side streets), motorists are not going to take kindly to you being in their space and certainly are not going to give you an ounce of respect. To their mind, you are a nuisance, a hobbyist to be honked & yelled at. They expect you to be on the sidewalk. I mean, why not, there is no one walking on them? Add to this the fact that many of said roads are chewed to shreds w/ potholes & severe cracks & the sidewalks are often a better alternative to even the few roads that have bike lanes b/c the sidewalks are actually likely to put less wear & tear on your bike.

So, like I said, I stick to the neighborhoods as much as possible, where I occupy my proper place & also spend as much time as I can on the paved bike paths that connect many of the areas various (& admittedly very nice) metroparks. b/c city residents are generally fat from driving everywhere they go & sitting on their ass, they are not out sharing said paths with me & usually I can just cruise right along w/out having to weave around pedestrians, stroller-pushers, rollerbladers and such. There are some, of course, but they are few and far b/w. But if I have to to anywhere near the mall, for example, fuck it. I'm sticking to the sidewalks & you are welcome to critique me however you please, but at least now I've given you my rationale for doing so.

When I join you folks back out east, I'll play by your rules & be a model cyclist & you will be very proud of me.

If the sidewalks are in better shape then I can get behind that.

I really am scared of riding on sidewalks, though. I've had too many close encounters, and have been full-on hit once.

But bike people, let's be real, have something to prove. I know that I'm a total blowhard when it comes to talking about where you should ride, and letting people know that I'm some kind of tough guy because I ride in the road even though I live in a cycle-unfriendly town. It's a cyclist's conceit, and I'm not even that hardcore.

Maybe I'm exaggerating the conceit, but it's not too far from the truth.

Yeah, I've scaled back the amount of time I spend curbside as I've gotten more assertive about riding w/ swift traffic. Still the busier street @ the busier times freak me out b/c of jackasses speeding, weaving & rolling signs & lights. There is just something about the mentality in this town that lends itself to shitty driving. Since I've lived here, I've observed multiple accidents which stemmed from plain foolishness, some of which occurred dangerously close to where I happened to be standing/walking. At least there is a fair distance b/w the road & buildings, so that I don't have to contend w/ vehicles shooting out of alleyways & such during those times when I do use the sidewalks.

Sorry to hear you got hit. I hope you weren't injured too badly!

I would caution against the idea that sidewalk riding is safer than being in a traffic lane. Most bike safety types strongly discourage sidewalk riding, because it's typically considered MORE dangerous than riding in the street. The majority of accidents occur at intersections, and riding on the sidewalk heightens the chance of not being seen by motorists in intersections. The idea of being hit by a car from behind is scary, but it's actually less likely to happen than getting left or right hooked by a turning car. The key is to be seen and have your actions be easily anticipated and predicted. If they can see you and can anticipate your movement, they won't hit you (unless they're homicidal). You're far more visible and predictable in traffic lanes.

If blocks are very long, this might change the equation somewhat.

I road on the type of bike lane that is just the picture of a bike with an arrow, without the line (on 34th Ave.), and I much
prefer the line--it adds to my peace of mind. I don't understand how I am supposed to navigate busy intersections--when a car is turning right, and I want to go straight, who has the right of way? Should I just wait for them to turn? Also, when there is a
delivery truck parked in the road, or a car pausing to parallel park, am I supposed to pass them on the left, or on the right?

If in doubt, act like a car. You are a road user and have the right to take up the space you need. For intersections, if you're going straight, don't pass on the right, but don't let yourself be passed on the left - position yourself in the middle of the road (ie outside of the bike lane if there is one). If vehicles are stopped in the road, pass them on the left like any other (motor) vehicle would.

And if people get antsy at you, remember to yell "share the road!"

;)

Love launching a barrage of self-righteous indignant rage at a pedestrian that steps into a cycle lane without looking. Generally they just stare back, stunned, praying this lunatic will pedal off soon.

http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1289131

God they are so annoying.

it doesn't stop you from being the one that ends up dead if you are a moron that drives a bike on busy narrow streets.

^ has never ridden a bike, run, jogged, walked, or spent any significant time outside of his house or car.

I am so glad I stopped reading slashdot all those years ago, what a bunch of morons.

dudes!
the other day i was riding along in the bike lane minding my own business when up ahead i see a couple guys standing pretty much in the bike lane. no probs cuz they wasn't no cars so i gives em a little room and one of the guys sorta non-chalantly takes a few steps positioning himself so that as i pass he could take a swing at me. i was sorta shocked but sorta not, as i could see this developing as i approached and successfully blocked the kids punch with my hand, although he kinda jammed my middle finger which i showed him enthusiastically directly after this happened. has anything like this ever happened to anyone else?

wau

where do u live

there is supposedly a rash of this shit going on in san francisco or oakland (can't remember which). totally fucked. you are lucky that all they used were their hands!

holy shit guy!

thats like a few years ago there were reports of kids in cars hitting cyclists with bats from cars.

er, from cars

see this is why i have a rpg launcher mounted on my bar.

i am in Chicago! it's ruff sometimes here.
yea actually the other day i got shot at by some kid with a beebee gun too

http://cowboyszone.com/images/temp/bullseye_shirt.jpg

jeez....where were you riding xp

west warren ave, a few blocks west of western, heading east at about 15 mph

interestingly this has happened to other guys too

yeah, seems to happen in most cities. most of the ones i've read about have been hitting people with objects though. like pipes or boards.

that is not the awesomest place to ride a bike IMO jd

http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/society-and-culture/roads-are-for-cars-not-lycra-louts-20091028-hkwr.html?autostart=1

xp
gbx-
yea i know that in general the west side is shite for staying "safe" but i had to pass through there, and i had never taken that route before. truth be told those jokers were the only people i saw on warren. but just out of curiosity, gbx: where is the awesomest place to ride a bike?

This is classic angry cyclist behaviour, as if it's up to the cycling fraternity to forcibly educate the motoring public and instil fear like jackbooted Soviets.

How aggressive do you have to be at 5am, anyway? You never hear of rowers, joggers, swimmers, yoga artists or other dawn fitness devotees attacking people.

fuck this cunt, i hope she gets u-locked

j/k ;)

jd---whatever you do, do not go for a bike ride on the LFP, it is the worst (though it's probably better now that the weather's gone to hell)

MKE Ave is a junkshow once the weather gets nice, but it's reliable in the shitty months

downtown is safer than you think

i mean my strategy for staying safe in chicago (...from pedestrians) was just go fast all the time

on those occasions that i went through the west side, i just pinned it, usually, and hoped that my tires were equal to the amount of glass on the street

it's actually the only place i've ever gotten aggro from the corner, w/dudes like straight telling me that i ought not to have come this way, and that maybe i made a bad life-choice by taking my bike via pulaski and chicago

ok i feels dum:
wut is "LFP" and "MKE"
also (about tires and glass) i got so many fucking flats last fall i bit the bullet and got those bullet proof tires and i haven't had a flat since

lake front path
milwaukee ave

lakefront path no good?

also what is up with cars overtaking you just so that they can cut across you inside ten yards?

This happens all the bloody time. With buses as well. Overtaking you and immediately pulling into the bus stop in front of you.

That Copenhagen lane does look nice, but as haitch pointed out, pedestrians do seem to mill into it fairly frequently. I'm not sure I really blame them, nobody's really switched on for it, which suggests slightly counterintuitive design.

coming from a city where the bike lane is a three foot wide strip running between parked cars and the street, demarcated by a sometimes barely visible pair of lines, that looks ideal. i can see how pedestrians would mill about but it looks to be so much more ideal and i think with a few tweaks in safety measures it would be perfect.

munich bike lanes are like that too. it works well, but i think the bike lanes and pedestrian lanes could afford to be a little bit more visually distinct, perhaps seperated by a low curb like in copenhagen.

what is the country that clearly and distinctly paints bike lanes red (i think?)

kudos

britain?

Portland paints em green I think? So does Chi in some areas

nyc green now

mix of green lanes and red lanes in glasgow

PDX has a few randomly interspersed green boxes, and their adjoining lanes are green, but that's it, they're mostly just standard-issue US bike lanes, just more of them.

Love seeing those euro lanes in part because they look like you'd feel fucking ridiculous pulling some urban-bike-warrior bullshit in them, whereas a lot of the lanes here feel like said bullshit is neccessary for survival.

also what is up with cars overtaking you just so that they can cut across you inside ten yards?

Yeah, this. Have clipped someone's bumper w my front tire before, can't believe I didn't eat it. Special place in hell for these people because it's so UNNECESSARY.

This is quite rare in Oxford. One of the benefits of bikes outnumbering cars.

The one time it happened to me, I was extremely lucky to do this kind eccentric bail over the back wheel maneuver, while my bike carried on at full speed into the car's near side as it turned left (UK). My front wheel needed replacing, which her insurance paid for. So, apparently, did her passenger door. I like to think she lost her no claim bonus, but she didn't seem like the kind of driver who would have one.

I was wearing a nice dress & slip-on shoes and going to a social event, so bailing was a bad option -- just held on and braked for dear life. This is really the most assholish thing I can think of -- other stupid shit drivers do might be carelessness or just bad driving...whereas cutting you off is putting you in danger on purpose.

That said, I freaked out a driver last week by switching sides and passing her as she came up to an intersection. She was sawing back and forth in her lane but generally pulling left into the bike lane and I wasn't sure it was going to be safe to pass her on that side, so I went to her right. Except at the last second she turned right and was surprised to see me there. No signal, of course. But as infuriating as that was, it was just her own poor driving.

yea i hate that when drivers get all bent out of shape as to how you pass them when they don't indicate their intended direction with their turn signal. i am not afraid to make stupid faces and yell at these people.

also wtf is up with the bus drivers overtaking you and pulling up at the next bus stop? is it b/c the person who wanted to get off hasn't rang the bell yet?

this morning i was actually put off by a busdriver WAITING for me to pass the stop and not overtaking me, until i realized what she was doing. i said wassup to her at the next stop light. she just gave a cowboy nod.

Not only did she not signal but she was weaving all over the road, cutting left and then right, like she was getting something out of the glove box or otherwise not at the wheel?? I passed her on the side she DIDN'T seem to be going to. Turned out she was just hanging out in the left part of the lane, she wasn't actually TURNING LEFT. Whatever, lady.

did you make a stupid face at her and yell something?

Yep.

also i have never seen a green bike lane in chicago
all the ones i have seen are 2 white lines spaced about 2-2.5' apart just to the left of the car park.

used to be a green one on MKE

there's some green ones down here but rumor has it that the city council ran out of paint.

http://vimeo.com/25037336

cycling LOLz