do you clap for carers?

It feels like the most churlish thing on earth to complain about, but as an autistic person (who is already completely on edge from having every single reassuring routine comprehensively broken in the past month) with a massive sensitivity to sound that is worsening as I age, having these spontaneous bursts of incredibly loud noise erupting at completely unpredictable times and lasting for unspecified durations, with no warning is... actually hell on earth.

It sets off all the animals on the street, it sets off all the babies and young children crying (past their bedtimes). It is in general incredibly distressing.

But go ahead and call me a melt or a tory or whatever other insult du jour is current on ILX.

I find it repulsive and the part of my area which very likely did vote Tory is where I've seen it being most regularly and loudly practised. You aren't allowed to vote for these cunts and then clap the institution they've been deliberately under-funding for the last decade. I don't loudly express this disgust because there is probably a very real chance I'd get lynched! When I first saw it happening I filmed some of it on my phone and had a few beers and was whispering under my breath about what a bunch of wankers they are, nobody heard me, nobody got hurt.

that seems a completely legitimate complaint Branwell and tbh melts are more likely to be pro-clapping

It’s been a reasonably big nightly thing in Paris for a month now. We do it if we’re finished eating by then. My doc friend in Brooklyn loves that it’s happening in NYC; he posts videos of it even. He’s risking his life daily and enjoys feeling a general sense appreciation for that.

It's uniquely complicated in the UK by the nation's (somewhat obsessive) relationship with the NHS combined with suspicions about the Conservative Party and government's relationship with the NHS. There has been a lot of comment on social media about Tory voters clapping for NHS workers.

... the hypocrisy thereof.

On one hand, it’s a poor substitute for a properly funded NHS but it doesn’t leave me as incensed as NHS charity drives. Raise taxes! The NHS is NOT a charity!

On the other hand, a set time where people in lockdown come out and both see and speak to their neighbours is a really good thing in terms of community cohesion - I feel less atomised and I hope my neighbours do, too.

On one hand, it’s a poor substitute for a properly funded NHS but it doesn’t leave me as incensed as NHS charity drives. Raise taxes! The NHS is NOT a charity!

On the other hand, a set time where people in lockdown come out and both see and speak to their neighbours is a really good thing in terms of community cohesion - I feel less atomised and I hope my neighbours do, too.

haven't seen IRL scoldings, no. But twitter grumbling has the same effect IMO, of just making everyone feel worse.

― Tim,Friday, 17 April 2020 bookmarkflaglink

It's a complicated act given the very recent election result -- and how the NHS was a real issue in that election too -- I just see the people on twitter (at their best which is not always the case lol) bringing up the contradictions.

my next door neighbour is a cunt. the neighbours on the other side are lovely but are never in (they have a flat on the seafront I think they tend to stay there instead). Never spoken to the ones next door to the cunt before but I saw the guy sweeping his drive while I was putting the bins out last week, said hello, he ignored me.

they can all go fuck themselves. I think it might get poppyish because last night there was some loudmouth bloke yelling "come on" aggressively over and over presumably because people weren't clapping enough. I can hear the dickhead next door with his braying phoney bullshit catchphrases as well. I was supposed to be moving away from these wankers but that's all fucked just like everything else

my cats aren't fans either tbh

there are TV adverts for "NHS charities" now, not sure exactly what they are but this seems like an escalation/normalisation of defunding the NHS to me

Not accusing anyone here, but there's also this fundamentally condescending subcurrent, absolutely rife on left Twitter, that assumes that because people are clapping they somehow haven't considered the possibility that the NHS should be better funded and the people working in it better paid and protected.

xp oh ok thanks Tom D, I didn't know that angle. I'm an immigrant here, maybe there is something like that here too, not sure. public hospitals here were on strike as the pandemic broke out and that's been a clash between the government and the hospitals, but since the pandemic the government has pledged a lot of money to fixing the problems that were in place, and health care workers have responded positively to that policy change.

Did this a few times but usually forget to and then am wondering what the noise is. Poor turnout last night compared to previous weeks. Glad it's a thing in several countries not something that can be branded as British Blighty bulldogging by bigots. As long as I don't hear people singing fucking Wonderwall or Imagine it's fine.

Tory is always the current insult on ilx!

The last couple of times there have been fireworks - quite a lot of them last night. What essential business are they getting these from??

having these spontaneous bursts of incredibly loud noise erupting at completely unpredictable times and lasting for unspecified durations

I agree the noise can be over the top (we can hear fucking BAGPIPES from three streets away) but they are neither unpredictable or spontaneous. It's Thursdays at 8pm for a couple of minutes. Routine.

xp oh ok thanks Tom D, I didn't know that angle. I'm an immigrant here, maybe there is something like that here too, n

I don't think there's anything like the relationship between the people and the NHS in France or anywhere else - it almost defines the nation, I mean, what else is there? The Royal Family? LOL. I cringed recently when one of my co-workers said it was the 'backbone of the nation' but I actually do think there's not much else left the UK has to cling on - I mean, the UK is dead already, of course, so there's a desperate edge to it.

The Tories have been deliberately and systematically misleading people about the NHS for a decade, there's a reason Cameron made a big deal about real-terms spending increases in the NHS from the get-go, even when everything else was being hacked back. That these increases turned out to be inadequate to say the least but they were at least able to get away with the claim that they were investing in it. Cummings recognised this as well last year, propagating the idea of the NHS as something that needs to be "protected" without articulating what that means or what he actually intended. So where that clapping Tory voter thing *does* exist it's often the desired result of ten years' worth of deliberate communications aimed at neutralising it as an election issue.

we can hear fucking BAGPIPES from three streets away

haven't our key workers suffered enough

it also means i end up chatting with my neighbours for a few mins, which is a good thing.

― mark e,Friday, 17 April 2020 bookmarkflaglink

That's genuinely nice.

I agree the noise can be over the top (we can hear fucking BAGPIPES from three streets away) but they are neither unpredictable or spontaneous. It's Thursdays at 8pm for a couple of minutes. Routine.

― Non, je ned raggette rien (onimo),Friday, 17 April 2020 09:43 bookmarkflaglink

Sorry for being autistic and having a different idea of what "routine" is.

Management techniques for intense anxiety include:
-Don't have Facebook
-Stripped down Twitter to essential announcements and soothing dog pictures
-Pared your news consumption to the bare minimum
-Lurk on p much one ILX thread (but only when you have the spoons to deal with it) for commentary

If you are glued to social media or wherever it is that they get organised, you can work out the pattern - if not, they happen at random. They happen late at night (after I have already switched on the white noise machine, and they are loud enough to cut through the white noise) and it can take hours to get back to a baseline of OK again, to get to sleep.

Thank you for reminding me why I don't post on ILX any more. Like, no matter how clearly and explicitly your state your conditions and your experiences, there will always be a man popping along to tell you why you're wrong. Fantastic!

the people I know who work for the NHS in various capacities have all said they appreciate it. If it makes people think twice about the real impact of the parties they vote for and the policies they represent then it's got to be worth... something.

it's only one night a week in the UK? it's every night here!

tbf I didn't know about it either and it took me by complete surprise the first time it happened - I thought, "Is some idiot having a party"?

If it makes people think twice about the real impact of the parties they vote for and the policies they represent

There's no way it does this btw.

"there's a reason Cameron made a big deal about real-terms spending increases in the NHS from the get-go"

I've heard "real-terms" used by some of the worst, bad to the bone tory liars so many times in recent years.. it's just a stand-in for "fake numbers pulled out of my arse" in my mind.

the "social media policing" element of it I can see creeping in already. I posted that Donald Macaskill interview from The Guardian last week where he basically scolded people for putting DNR notices on older people without informed consent, and said how uneasy this all makes me - key workers are still people, still fallible with bias and prejudice, and I wouldn't want to give trust in such major decisions quite so easily*. The comments I was getting were an absolute pile-on. It seems you can't be critical of the NHS and its weaknesses even if it's coming from a place of knowing that we should expect and demand better.

(*what calzino said in the other thread about doctors dealing with children with autism etc struck a nerve with me, I've seen and met so many arsehole doctors who think a job and some money puts them on a pedestal)

i do not clap for carers

I'm sorry that this is freaking you out Branwell, that sounds miserable. It's sounds like you're on a far more extreme media blackout than anyone here expected, but I'm not sure it's entirely fair for you to expect onimo to pick that up from your first post.

I do. Helps that I know we don't live in a Tory area, far from it.

I first heard about it while Skyping a mate living in Catalonia just before the UK lockdown. They have tighter lockdown measures and clap at 8pm every night.
Then at 9pm they bang pots and pans in protest (this is a protest tradition going back a long time for Catalunyans). I'm all for adopting this, so long as it doesn't bother people too much with noise.

Yes you could say there's a cynical streak running through it, and it's easy to see it as an empty gesture. But why should Boris and co be allowed to co-opt and ruin a show of solidarity? Fuck them. It's not for them.

As well as being a mark of solidarity towards key-workers, it invokes a sense of community spirit during times when people might be feeling very isolated. It's good to be reminded that other people are there, that we're all doing our best to survive together.
The clap is especially for key workers, NHS workers, shop workers, delivery drivers, midwives, and anyone else risking their own lives to help others.

But it's also a clap for community - for parents trying to home-school their kids while working their day job from their bedrooms; for elderly and vulnerable people who are cut off from the rest of society and fearing for their lives; for everyone doing their bit to help out, even if that simply means staying indoors and observing quarantine rules.

as boxedjoy says, I know of very few people working for the NHS who don't appreciate it.

FULL STEAM AHEAD: London's Woolwich Ferry performed donuts on the River Thames in support of health care workers on the front line of the COVID-19 pandemic. https://t.co/htOkkfBOgJ pic.twitter.com/2PtH5JVzr6

— ABC News (@ABC) April 17, 2020

I'm sure that NHS workers would really appreciate a ferry going down in the Thames right now.

xp to myself, but fuck anyone who voted Tory and is clapping, that goes without saying

No. It sends the dog crazy so I spend 8.00-8.15 trying to calm him down

But why should Boris and co be allowed to co-opt and ruin a show of solidarity? Fuck them. It's not for them.

#ClapForBoris

that's some bullshit 'my cool boss has a mohawk' stuff though. of course they're going to co-opt it. why should they ruin it? i didn't hear a single person clap for Boris, and I live in a pretty built-up area, but as I say it's a Labour / Green stronghold here

xp to myself, but fuck anyone who voted Tory and is clapping, that goes without saying

The suspicion is that the most enthusiastic clappers are people who voted Tory. Salving their consciences at 8pm every Thursday and getting to be all British and Keep Calm And Carry On at the same time. "I'm doing my bit to support the NHS and key workers, what are you doing?" "Er, not voting Tory for a start."

I'll tell you what has got me really angry - Tom Moore doing his laps raising £1m. Why is this being presented as a feel-good story and not a disgraceful indictment of the nick of this country?

Tom D - but i don't know where that assumption comes from. who knows who's clapping. it's fireworks and drums a go-go in our area, and very few are voting Tory. YMMV of course

boxedjoy otm - that story is so fucked

Maybe we can get the next infected nurse that pulls through to swim the channel an all

definitely seems to be big in suburban tory england. noted left twitter scold keir starmer was complaining abt clapping as an empty gesture

this is happening every night at 7 in brooklyn. i do not participate and my cat is too fixated on impending dinner to care

Why is this being presented as a feel-good story and not a disgraceful indictment of the nick of this country?

Because the country is irreversibly fucked and the sooner Scotland gets the fuck out of it the better?

Every night definitely feels like overkill for pretty much anything of this nature but maybe I’m a grumpy bastard. I just had a “virtual coffee break” with my team at work and it was nice to see everyone and check in with how we were all doing, but at the end of the 45 minute call they started talking about making it a regular thing - “we could do it once a week” “yeah, or maybe more often than that” - and I’m like uhhhhhhh

oh god, we have way too many of these things, including a 4pm 'virtual pub session' on Fridays, which means that I start drinking way earlier than I normally would on a weekend and am sloshed in my house by 10pm

with workmates? bad enough having to go to the actual pub w them

it's quite terrible. not improved by a lousy broadband connection which makes everyone look and sound like Max Headroom

I've been saying that if you wanted to make some cynical money, you should sell "I clapped" badges - people want to make a difference of course and to stand with others, but they are also aware that a fair health system is not what they have, and (whether they voted for it or not) they on some level want to nudge karma in case they need it.

The bagpipes got a round of applause when they finished, just to twist the knife

We get bagpipes and a solitary church bell ringer, in E Anglia.

had no idea it had a right wing connotation in the UK. i like doing it in canada where has none. it's nice

― flopson, Saturday, May 23, 2020 10:03 AM (five days ago) bookmarkflaglink

there's definitely some social aspects to this tho. like West side Vancouver definitely more a clappy place than East Van afaict (there's like no clapping from my poor door condo neighbors, only a little from the yuppy condo dwellers).. and I was out at my gf's mum's place in south surrey and it was like Mardi Gras

We had (very bad) bagpipes for the first time tonight, as well. Odd. So it's a thing, then.

was this the last one

Fingers crossed.

Did anyone get any booing or does that start next week?

it seemed to start off a bit tepid this week and I thought oh is it finally on its way out then some wanker let off a few fireworks and then came the saucepan banging and presumably a kazoo or vuvuzela or something

Exclusively a Tory thing from next week I think, not that it hasn't been. Hopefully 8.01 will be Boo For Cummings.

Who decided it was officially over just before it petered out? Like who's in charge of unofficial impromptu public displays and how does everyone know?

The lady who started it in England (and has been getting increasing press coverage saying "I'm not clapping any more")?

Dutch wasn't she? It is probably safe to say it would have happened anyway

Hard to say, don't see anyone doing it elsewhere (aide removes cap off telescope)

There is definitely a lot of people saying "this is the last one" and possibly because of that it's louder than ever yesterday (though I don't think it was tapering off even before that).

did it spread to the US and Canada from the UK? I mean the clapping not the other thing!

My street were out in force last night - even some twat with an air horn. They know my missus is a nurse, so a mere glimpse of her and everyone starts clapping directly at our house. It's so fucking bizarre (but good for her).

Weren't they doing it in Spain weeks before us? Though there it was spontaneous.

Also I think Euler said they were doing it in Paris.

did they ever play bagpipes and let off fireworks in France? I'm just checking if it is a normal country.

Clapping here, but as previously mentioned it’s an estate on the doorstep of two hospitals.

I mean, somewhere in the DNA was the opera singing from I think Italy, so bagpipes are not entirely outwith the area.

I'm sure the accordions are out in force in Paris.

what was the 1 o'clock clapping for? did i miss a memo?

clapping for wealth creators

just curious, does anyone do this anymore?

The lady who started it (in the UK) said to stop back in May, and my impression is that people did https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/22/lets-stop-clapping-for-the-nhs-says-woman-who-started-the-ritual

That lady has so much power. Maybe she could do something about poppy shaming.

There are isolated areas of Vancouver where it still happens every night at 7. Just a smattering but still there.

https://i.imgur.com/xOBtZyp.jpg

Fucking hell how long was he clapping for?

that's outstanding

if the neighbour also had the clap that would have been a tabloid headline writers dream

How the fuck is that guy 34?! It's almost as if they're making it up.

Maybe the neighbour is a Hero.

blap for heroes

you need more than lip service to dodge the clap