have you quit the labour party yet?

"Jealous of your system where a party is a thing you can “join” in a meaningful sense"

it's no good when most of the members are either voting for an insipid establishment melt or the majority that didn't vote because their own "real opposition" media clown wasn't even close to being up to the job. i really miss Corbyn and McD :(

But at least you can quit it now! What a relief.

when posters badmouth them on here I feel like knifing them for real tbh!

re osborne, this bizarre inversion where opposition means no opposition is totally doing my head in, as is the fact that some non tories seem to genuinely believe this

but i never joined the party anyway so w/e

try telling some of these "non tories" that they aren't tories. You'd need medieval torture tools to make them admit it and they've got a "plurality of voices" on their side !

I wonder if to some extent this idea of 'real opposition' depends on your subconscious conception of what opposition is, whether its something external and existential, a replacement - or whether its more managerial. Almost like the opposition as kind of a wing of the government rather than a replacement for it.

We see this sort of stuff when incoming Labour MPs are asked if they're going to be friendly with Conservatives or not (which is a trick question of course). Was it Pidcock that said she couldn't be? But this then seen as not playing the game, not being respectful to Parliament itself. As somehow ooposed to the concept of parliament and democracy itself

that makes a lot of sense actually

it's supposed to be her majesty's most loyal opposition after all

I think this is part of it but maybe something deeper but its not easy to unpick - and it may be a difficult tightrope for the left in general to walk (oppositional but seen as able to work within whatever power structures are in place). Much of this is presentational rather than substantive, so that path is there.

I even think there's something in this, as I don't really know how much mileage there is in the combative or confrontational approach (QT etc is cringe-worthy with this stuff, and the weird mixture of acquiescence and bluster from the media ineffectual). Or at least it shouldn't be the only or even main instrument. McD maybe the only person that was able to do this. Theoretically it should be easier to play this kind of game of appealing to people who view things through this lens as its really just packaging but its not easy to see who that might be (Ro Khanna in the US seems someone that maybe might have it but don't know in UK)

I think we probably need to distinguish between the people pushing this kind of stuff in a kind of fantasy world of 'opponents shaking hands at the end of the day after a fine battle of wills and wits good show pals" and people subconsciously receiving this narrative as 'now we have someone that takes the job seriously instead of just making cheap points" via the media

Also: how about giving it up for the year and maybe returning to it next year.

Are other people that you know simply quitting and just not engaging in any form of politics? And if they aren't what else are they doing? (I may need some tips lol)

I wonder if to some extent this idea of 'real opposition' depends on your subconscious conception of what opposition is, whether its something external and existential, a replacement - or whether its more managerial. Almost like the opposition as kind of a wing of the government rather than a replacement for it.

We see this sort of stuff when incoming Labour MPs are asked if they're going to be friendly with Conservatives or not (which is a trick question of course). Was it Pidcock that said she couldn't be? But this then seen as not playing the game, not being respectful to Parliament itself. As somehow ooposed to the concept of parliament and democracy itself

I see a lot of ppl fading or quitting who are already busy with jobs and kids. seems like the options are just be casually involved with worthy but isolated small-scale stuff or to attempt to pull everything together yourself. no one ever really worked out what they were doing ofc

my position equates precisely onto SV's; little more to add

the ppl railing against despair, the fragmentation of the movement, or bitterly avoiding electoral politics entirely seem to be doing so out of some sense of moral obligation rather than out of any conviction.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVO9PXiUcAAQHHY?format=jpg&name=large

I've not seen any signs of buyer's remorse from any Kier voters yet. If *this* is what they actually I'm amazed they stuck with Corbyn for so long. But I suppose that is the nature of apolitical happy clappers.

onboard/contained

I think many of them had contaminated 99's from Owen Smith's Mr Melty ice cream van.

Somewhere between wavering and never - I think it's ony prudent to see how things play out but I don't have high hopes.

Even if you had low hopes they pretty much got dashed yesterday! I thought there might be some Kier voters despairing at a shadow cab with Streeting and JP.

messaging w/ ppl and I can tell they're hoping I'm going to offer some rousing morale-boosting sentiments and I'm just holding off on saying "mb see how it's going in 4-10 years??"

I think that timescale might be oppomistic, but these aren't ordinary times.. You never know.

Phone typing whilst walking!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVMUCIMWoAAZrMy?format=jpg&name=large

That one's a doozy! But Sir Kier is offering Jimmy Savile badges to nurses tbf!

Keir's letter was only the start of it....

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

Fucking lol

‘The Labour Party’ isn’t a person. It doesn’t care if you break up with it. It isn’t going to change its ways because you sulk and refuse to talk to it for a year.

— Jeremy Gilbert (@jemgilbert) April 13, 2020

By the time my trade union processes the necessary paperwork for my subs to be switched to the non-affiliated political fund, the world as we currently understand it won't exist anyway

― Dadjokke (Sgt. Biscuits), Thursday, 9 April 2020 23:21 (four days ago) bookmarkflaglink

Turns out Emilie Oldknow is their Assistant General Secretary now, so I guess there's a quicker solution

xp he's right, it's not going to change its ways

what's the new party going to be called* then lads

*at this point the name is probably the most important bit. don't fuck this up whatever you do. examples of fuck-ups: 'momentum'; 'society'; 'people's party'

The Workshy Allstar Teadrinker's Society of North

missy eliot's song 'fremme neppa venette'

The Dangerous Alliance

needs to have a party crest with a guillotine on it.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

melts

I didn't vote (because I don't vote in polls almost never) but this is really good.

When a left-wing friend stood for election in my union, he had massive support. His opponent had none. On the day of the election, the right-wing branch said there’s an allegation of corruption against him. No details were given, but “we must suspend the election for a month”.

— Tony Collins (@_tony_c_) April 14, 2020

can't remember if i voted in this or not but -- im not going anywhere yet, although the sub fees would be handy for a sandwich. But I'll wait til the NEC vote at least, and/or Suck Here goes full mask off.

I suppose Magid Magid could always Green leader

with no conference this year is there anything to even do as members

Forward Momentum Vs Renewal Momentum poll

fwd ftw

yeah it's a weird contest but it's no contest

Our fantastic new Shadow Cabinet are also going to be running a series of online policy discussions

lol I'm still getting emails in my junk folder from Sir K despite cancelling the dd months ago. Maybe you shouldn't have put Reeves in there if "fantastic" was your goal, arsehole! I agree with what reeves said in 2015 now tbf, Labour isn't the party for the likes of me at all anymore... no problemo.. bye !

This person has criticised forward momentum here a bit.

https://tribunemag.co.uk/2020/05/where-momentum-went-wrong

I really like this piece.

Yeah I saw that. I think it's pretty astute on how momentum fitted into the UK left over the last decade, the changes and continuity, and some of the structural problems given the nature of the org. I think he tends towards a narrow prescriptive - 'rigorous'! - workerism that has no chance of building an effective coalition though.

I am not sure what could build an effective coalition but I liked most of his five points. Good luck to him.

I'm just thinking that the vagueness/openness of Momentum was a big part of what made it unique and large, the narrower it gets, the more it becomes like just another pre-2015 leftist org. the fourth and fifth points seem like vague dreams rather than plans (if there's one thing I've learned about 'the masses' it's that they don't exist), but the third seems clearly right to me. I think there's a balance between decentralization on one hand and having some high profile figure heads to keep some good energy going at a national level, but building better-organised central bodies for educating ppl/dealing with trade unions etc. seems unappealing to me as a main focus, even if it might be necessary. the best momentum things imo were just creating ways for people to network and get involved as they saw fit.

the way they've treated her in comparison to Neil Coyle, who had his whip restored after racial abuse of a journo and harassing an assistant. Well that shows the distinction between politically convenient racism, which is a very grave offense in Diane's case, and the racism they are happy to give a pass to.

Centrists and terfs throwing fits because Owen Jones has left Labour, you love to see it.

Yes, strange, since they were saying they didn’t need him for years

Apparently this also makes him a grifter? Who knew!

Meanwhile I'm thinking the lad might still vote for them even after all this

No, I’m sure a huge part of the reason he’s left is that Emily Thornberry (his MP) has been extremely shifty over Gaza. They have been good friends in the past and often canvassed together. I’m sure people in Labour who are dissatisfied with the direction of the party generally stick around as members if they like their MP.

"We Deserve Better" looks likely to be effective as "Enough is Enough" in terms of results, but fuck it, if it helps to run scum like Starmer and Streeting close in the numbers, it will have ben worth it. And it may help in Bristol West too. I have to say, I do admire Jones' stances lately, and his videos have been very useful in helping to educate my parents. My mum has really changed her opinion of Starmer and Labour because of him. And I really can't see how this is beneficial to his career, despite solidifying his brand. In any case, it's a good brand.

We all remember his video encouraging us to vote Labour last year - it does genuinely seem to be Gaza which has pushed him over the edge, and you have to respect that.

I’m a big football fan, I go to England games, men, women’s games. And the flag is used by everybody, it’s unifying, it doesn’t need to change. We just need to be proud of it. So I think they should just reconsider this and change it back.

hahaha we're back baby pic.twitter.com/z9QG2TFCE5

— Frank Sobotka (@cymrurouge) March 24, 2024

Bring it on.

Lol I thought they were going to to do Euan Blairs ex

This is much funnier

I think Euan Blair’s ex will be running in the constituency where she lives (and ran as a LibDem last time).

i just don't see Mason happening, he's too embarrassing even for Labour 2024 and doesn't seem to be acknowledged by anybody in the party that matters

strongly hoping for him to get a chance tho, it'll surely be the comedy highlight of the election

his main problem is that he isn't even a useful idiot for Starmer Labour. Nobody takes him seriously and he didn't come close in his 3(?) previous attempts at standing in low-key seats. God knows why he thinks he can take on the Jam man, who is popular, respected and is taken seriously - especially on his own patch. If Labour right do run him against Corbyn it would be no-risk for them, because he's certain to lose and none of them really give a shit about him. He was an early Starmer adopter and even he doesn't give a shit about him.

good thread

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Here's another selection mentioned in the Telegraph report.

Unless you believe that such a wildly unbelievable discrepancy is in fact plausible, there's only one conclusion: the results have been tampered with. pic.twitter.com/VsYD37Ulc3

— Angus Satow (@AngusSatow) March 28, 2024

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/30/starmer-faces-discontent-as-labour-mps-criticise-election-flyers-union-jacks

Other Labour guidance to members on branding states that a “primary palette” of colours including “Labour red”, “flag blue” as well as white and black should predominate colour when producing “content or positive messaging”.

A “secondary palette” has been composed to match messaging relating to Labour’s “missions”. They are “growth pink”, “green energy green”, “NHS blue”, “policing yellow” and “opportunity purple”.

I Am Opportunity (Purple)

yeah i'm not voting for this brown

they have exhibited so much islamophobia for decades, like for instance briefing the press that they are "shaking off some fleas" in response to muslim voters rejecting them, and their apologists have the nerve to say they are reclaiming the flag from the far right

policing yellow of course, who can forget such sayings as the boys in yellow and the thin yellow line