have you quit the labour party yet?

just cancelled the dd. Didn't bother with the resignation email. They aren't a party of opposition any more and will only get worse once the guileless fuckwit melt of a leader is stabbed in the back.

By the time my trade union processes the necessary paperwork for my subs to be switched to the non-affiliated political fund, the world as we currently understand it won't exist anyway

Did so earlier this week, both dd and through contact form.

does anyone have any hope

I only joined in December.

I'm thinking about it.

I’ve left the party before, when Miliband was tacking to the right, but am not inclined to do it again yet.

I don’t rate Starmer as a leader but I recognise that the shadow cabinet he has put together is an upgrade on the pre-Corbyn one. It’s also the best we are going to get, either within the Labour Party, or electoral politics in general, any time soon. It’s too early to judge how the policy platform will shake out and whether they’ll cross any of my red lines (triangulation on immigration, welfare, military adventurism, etc) - at which point I may give up completely.

The left isn’t going to retake the Labour Party for a while. The right is far more likely to make a concerted attempt to scuttle Starmer first. Unless there is a particularly compelling reason not to, I’d rather stay to oppose that.

I also look at people like Corbyn, McDonnell, the old guard members, etc, who stuck it out through Kinnock and Blair in the belief that there may be something of value to save and were briefly proved right. They’ve put up with worse.

I joined by making a contribution and canvassing at the last electoon. Whether I decide to stay or leave is a decision I will make later in the year and will depend on what contribution I can make with others locally. Difficult to be more specific as I was navigating through the thing and then covid hit.

I don't know if reading lots of stuff since Starmer's victory is good for the soul really (I was going to ask for a few links but thought the better of it). Give yourself a break for a few weeks.

hope these days is getting 4 pints of milk. There isn't an opposition any more. I didn't vote for 20+ years previously and can easily switch back to that mode. I was born poor as fuck and am used to living poor as fuck and with very low expectations of UK governments and the so called opposition. Fuck 'em all! I've got decades of accumulated hatred and class resentments towards wankers like Starmer and would rather die than give him a vote tbh!

I spent most of the 00's working on the poorest social housing of Yorkshire and don't buy any of the crap about the gains of Blairism. I just despise the Labour Party right now.

Hope is not getting 4 pints of milk, we ended up with that this morning. It means we're not getting any on Saturday

Keir Starmer’s reshuffle is impressive - the Marxist nutters are out; moderate left are in. When this crisis is eventually over, and politics is resumed, the Tories are going to find that the 5 years when there was no opposition and no alternative has come to an abrupt end

— George Osborne (@George_Osborne) April 9, 2020

xp
hah!

Good job Osborne, the guy publishing antisemitic cartoons of Starmer’s cabinet yesterday, has no motive for undermining the Labour Party and can be relied on to play with a straight bat or I’d think he’s trolling.

Could look at the way he has treated the even further right Sadiq Khan for evidence of what he thinks of the ‘soft left’.

Re: hope. I think it's pretty much clear that: 1) a lot of stuff is happening and 2) a lot of it is bad (but some is good too)

We should not divorce 1 from 2 (and the item in the bracket) either.

how good that stuff that is happening rn might be depends on how much you believe this will genuinely be a paradigm shift rather than a precursor for more of the same - but worse.

btw if anyone ever falls into food poverty during this lockdown, just remember Mark G doesn't fall into food poverty but he considers that quite a whimsical thing.

wait is this a ukpol thread ffs i wasnt told

Nah, just trying to keep my own spirits up.

soz if I was harsh there Mark!

xp
Get back to your failed melt thread that was like the worst episode of QI ya cunt!

Basically, it was a metaphor for how things seem to get better before they start to get worse.

Nothing to do with the subject in hand, I agree. I'm off to bed anyway, gnight.

goodnight mark, sorry for being a bit shitty. i'm beyond fresh rn!

Jealous of your system where a party is a thing you can “join” in a meaningful sense

Here silby on a semi related note we were discussing you on the main thread and you should post there more in our opinion

I’ll see what I can do. I already disappointed lots of folks by forgetting to become a Crystal Palace supporter, as a bit.

Pretty sure imago would not be disappointed by you forgetting to become a Crystal Palace supporter.

"Jealous of your system where a party is a thing you can “join” in a meaningful sense"

it's no good when most of the members are either voting for an insipid establishment melt or the majority that didn't vote because their own "real opposition" media clown wasn't even close to being up to the job. i really miss Corbyn and McD :(

But at least you can quit it now! What a relief.

when posters badmouth them on here I feel like knifing them for real tbh!

re osborne, this bizarre inversion where opposition means no opposition is totally doing my head in, as is the fact that some non tories seem to genuinely believe this

but i never joined the party anyway so w/e

try telling some of these "non tories" that they aren't tories. You'd need medieval torture tools to make them admit it and they've got a "plurality of voices" on their side !

I wonder if to some extent this idea of 'real opposition' depends on your subconscious conception of what opposition is, whether its something external and existential, a replacement - or whether its more managerial. Almost like the opposition as kind of a wing of the government rather than a replacement for it.

We see this sort of stuff when incoming Labour MPs are asked if they're going to be friendly with Conservatives or not (which is a trick question of course). Was it Pidcock that said she couldn't be? But this then seen as not playing the game, not being respectful to Parliament itself. As somehow ooposed to the concept of parliament and democracy itself

that makes a lot of sense actually

it's supposed to be her majesty's most loyal opposition after all

I think this is part of it but maybe something deeper but its not easy to unpick - and it may be a difficult tightrope for the left in general to walk (oppositional but seen as able to work within whatever power structures are in place). Much of this is presentational rather than substantive, so that path is there.

I even think there's something in this, as I don't really know how much mileage there is in the combative or confrontational approach (QT etc is cringe-worthy with this stuff, and the weird mixture of acquiescence and bluster from the media ineffectual). Or at least it shouldn't be the only or even main instrument. McD maybe the only person that was able to do this. Theoretically it should be easier to play this kind of game of appealing to people who view things through this lens as its really just packaging but its not easy to see who that might be (Ro Khanna in the US seems someone that maybe might have it but don't know in UK)

I think we probably need to distinguish between the people pushing this kind of stuff in a kind of fantasy world of 'opponents shaking hands at the end of the day after a fine battle of wills and wits good show pals" and people subconsciously receiving this narrative as 'now we have someone that takes the job seriously instead of just making cheap points" via the media

Also: how about giving it up for the year and maybe returning to it next year.

Are other people that you know simply quitting and just not engaging in any form of politics? And if they aren't what else are they doing? (I may need some tips lol)

I wonder if to some extent this idea of 'real opposition' depends on your subconscious conception of what opposition is, whether its something external and existential, a replacement - or whether its more managerial. Almost like the opposition as kind of a wing of the government rather than a replacement for it.

We see this sort of stuff when incoming Labour MPs are asked if they're going to be friendly with Conservatives or not (which is a trick question of course). Was it Pidcock that said she couldn't be? But this then seen as not playing the game, not being respectful to Parliament itself. As somehow ooposed to the concept of parliament and democracy itself

I see a lot of ppl fading or quitting who are already busy with jobs and kids. seems like the options are just be casually involved with worthy but isolated small-scale stuff or to attempt to pull everything together yourself. no one ever really worked out what they were doing ofc

my position equates precisely onto SV's; little more to add

the ppl railing against despair, the fragmentation of the movement, or bitterly avoiding electoral politics entirely seem to be doing so out of some sense of moral obligation rather than out of any conviction.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVO9PXiUcAAQHHY?format=jpg&name=large

I've not seen any signs of buyer's remorse from any Kier voters yet. If *this* is what they actually I'm amazed they stuck with Corbyn for so long. But I suppose that is the nature of apolitical happy clappers.

onboard/contained

I think many of them had contaminated 99's from Owen Smith's Mr Melty ice cream van.

Somewhere between wavering and never - I think it's ony prudent to see how things play out but I don't have high hopes.

Even if you had low hopes they pretty much got dashed yesterday! I thought there might be some Kier voters despairing at a shadow cab with Streeting and JP.

messaging w/ ppl and I can tell they're hoping I'm going to offer some rousing morale-boosting sentiments and I'm just holding off on saying "mb see how it's going in 4-10 years??"

I think that timescale might be oppomistic, but these aren't ordinary times.. You never know.

Phone typing whilst walking!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVMUCIMWoAAZrMy?format=jpg&name=large

That one's a doozy! But Sir Kier is offering Jimmy Savile badges to nurses tbf!

Momentum have been fortunate not to have been proscribed anyway, and seemingly only because they've done fuck all since 2019.

If the motion is passed Momentum would hold the same membership criteria as the leftwing thinktank the Fabian Society, which is still deemed closely associated with the Labour party and has influenced Labour policy.

apparently you don't have to be in the Labour party to join the Fabians, but if you're a member of a party that contests elections against Labour party you can join as an 'associate member' without voting rights. Their website also says that 'around 80%' of Fabian members are also in the Labour party.

you can *only* join as an 'associate member'

the only effective pressure groups on the Labour Party these days are bet365, private healthcare lobbyists, big business donors and various billionaires etc. If anybody truly wants to change the party they have to explain why why nobody should vote Labour because there isn't a popular mandate for austerity and they are fucking garbage. Momentum won't do that, so basically they are absolutely without a reason to exist - other than just ambling on doing nothing.

I'm just trying to process how stupid or disingenuous you'd have to be to call the Fabians left wing

Momentum has been a busted flush since 2019 at the latest if I'm generous

Did anyone else get the begging email from Labour that is fundraising off the back of the racism faced by Diane Abbott, without even once mentioning her by name?

You can respond to it, so I did:

Not a penny from me or anyone I know in Holborn and St Pancras (where I live) until the whip is restored to the Diane Abbott, the victim of this racism, along with an apology. She apologised to you for her poorly expressed letter; how sad it is that it’s taken the whole Hester scandal and the Speaker’s refusal to call her at PMQs to illustrate to the general public that deep within that letter, she may have had a point.

nice

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GIndn4pXYAEYhy2?format=jpg&name=medium

🤢

yeah it's disgraceful all right

Cunts.

JP tweeting up a storm over this when she made her name as a new MP by slagging off Diane frequently hasn’t gone unnoticed

Journalist Robert Peston and Labour MP Jess Philips having a good laugh at someone impersonating Diane Abbott. Racism is not the preserve of any one political party https://t.co/mGmv44zS1U

— Diane Abbott MP (@HackneyAbbott) March 13, 2024

i thought they didn't care about little people's money nowadays

Don’t you know? The only thing they value from little people are their votes - which you should give up without questioning what you’re supporting - or whatever coins the glorious forthcoming Reeves era leaves you with after cutting whatever remains of public services so she can spend money getting her hair cut at Legoland or giving nice contracts to donors.

I should clarify: RR is not spending valuable donor money on getting her hair cut, you just have to clip that stuff on and you’re good to go.
https://i.postimg.cc/ZqRTXSGN/IMG-7071.jpg

i assume Reeves has a big round peg on top of her head so this looks credible

Next ukpol thread title needs to be “short legs, big happy smile”, works for Starmer and Reeves both

Reeves' political hero, Nancy Astor ("our honourable member for Berlin") got sidelined by the Tories, mainly for being a pro Nazi regime nutjob who kept embarrassing them in parliament and she was also loudly anti-Semitic. That's her political hero.

First white antisemitic Nazi female MP >>>>>>>>>> first black female MP

Now the gossip is that she’s been offered the whip back on condition she stands down at the General.

Fuck. That.

Also RR is so clearly cosplaying Gina McKee from Our Friends In The North, along with eg. Bridget Phillipson.

These Labour antisemitism investigations sure do take a long time

right????? scandalous eh

A sham inquiry obviously, because aside from the letter to the Observer there is fuck all else of substance on Abbott to justify a year of *investigation*

they’re really dragging their feet. they must not be serious about tackling the problem. why are these antisemites still in the party. etc

the way they've treated her in comparison to Neil Coyle, who had his whip restored after racial abuse of a journo and harassing an assistant. Well that shows the distinction between politically convenient racism, which is a very grave offense in Diane's case, and the racism they are happy to give a pass to.

Centrists and terfs throwing fits because Owen Jones has left Labour, you love to see it.

Yes, strange, since they were saying they didn’t need him for years

Apparently this also makes him a grifter? Who knew!

Meanwhile I'm thinking the lad might still vote for them even after all this

No, I’m sure a huge part of the reason he’s left is that Emily Thornberry (his MP) has been extremely shifty over Gaza. They have been good friends in the past and often canvassed together. I’m sure people in Labour who are dissatisfied with the direction of the party generally stick around as members if they like their MP.

"We Deserve Better" looks likely to be effective as "Enough is Enough" in terms of results, but fuck it, if it helps to run scum like Starmer and Streeting close in the numbers, it will have ben worth it. And it may help in Bristol West too. I have to say, I do admire Jones' stances lately, and his videos have been very useful in helping to educate my parents. My mum has really changed her opinion of Starmer and Labour because of him. And I really can't see how this is beneficial to his career, despite solidifying his brand. In any case, it's a good brand.

We all remember his video encouraging us to vote Labour last year - it does genuinely seem to be Gaza which has pushed him over the edge, and you have to respect that.

I’m a big football fan, I go to England games, men, women’s games. And the flag is used by everybody, it’s unifying, it doesn’t need to change. We just need to be proud of it. So I think they should just reconsider this and change it back.

hahaha we're back baby pic.twitter.com/z9QG2TFCE5

— Frank Sobotka (@cymrurouge) March 24, 2024

Bring it on.

Lol I thought they were going to to do Euan Blairs ex

This is much funnier

I think Euan Blair’s ex will be running in the constituency where she lives (and ran as a LibDem last time).

i just don't see Mason happening, he's too embarrassing even for Labour 2024 and doesn't seem to be acknowledged by anybody in the party that matters

strongly hoping for him to get a chance tho, it'll surely be the comedy highlight of the election

his main problem is that he isn't even a useful idiot for Starmer Labour. Nobody takes him seriously and he didn't come close in his 3(?) previous attempts at standing in low-key seats. God knows why he thinks he can take on the Jam man, who is popular, respected and is taken seriously - especially on his own patch. If Labour right do run him against Corbyn it would be no-risk for them, because he's certain to lose and none of them really give a shit about him. He was an early Starmer adopter and even he doesn't give a shit about him.

good thread

That's just the tip of the iceberg.

Here's another selection mentioned in the Telegraph report.

Unless you believe that such a wildly unbelievable discrepancy is in fact plausible, there's only one conclusion: the results have been tampered with. pic.twitter.com/VsYD37Ulc3

— Angus Satow (@AngusSatow) March 28, 2024

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/mar/30/starmer-faces-discontent-as-labour-mps-criticise-election-flyers-union-jacks

Other Labour guidance to members on branding states that a “primary palette” of colours including “Labour red”, “flag blue” as well as white and black should predominate colour when producing “content or positive messaging”.

A “secondary palette” has been composed to match messaging relating to Labour’s “missions”. They are “growth pink”, “green energy green”, “NHS blue”, “policing yellow” and “opportunity purple”.

I Am Opportunity (Purple)

yeah i'm not voting for this brown

they have exhibited so much islamophobia for decades, like for instance briefing the press that they are "shaking off some fleas" in response to muslim voters rejecting them, and their apologists have the nerve to say they are reclaiming the flag from the far right

policing yellow of course, who can forget such sayings as the boys in yellow and the thin yellow line