long-time reader first-time bread-maker

wait this is an hour pre-bake consisting of 20 mins plus 30 mins ?

(i don't have any strong flour current so the experiment was "what happens if you use plain flour and knead twice as long" as per a recipe i found online)

this is a safe space for bread nerds and noobs alike, no worry too pernickety, no question too dumb :)

― mark s, Sunday, 22 March 2020 12:09 (six days ago) bookmarkflaglink

What are some other good ideas for proofing dough at home (keeping it at ~80-90 F / ~26-32 C while also staying humid)?

Can you do it in a slow cooker on low, with a cup of water next to the dough?

Can you do it on a low stovetop burner somehow?

mark:

pre-heat oven on max for an hour
put in dough
lower to 230C after about 20 minutes and bake for about 30 minutes more

ah interesting: that's less heat *and* less time than my recipe said -- except i think it did originally say something closer to yours but various punters reported overbaking and even burning so they reduced both

well adjust if you need to - everybody’s ovens are slightly different! but that ought to be pretty close to what you want

ok i have a question abt fan ovens then: do i change the numbers when the fan is on (i always put the fan on bcz why wouldn't i)

don’t put on the fan - the fan will extract all the nice moisture that helps the bread push upwards in that first 20 minutes

in fact, slightly next-level is to put a pan of boiling water in bottom of your oven for that first 20 minutes to maximise steam situation. take out out when you reduce the heat.

blimey these are the tippiest tips :)

I've struggled with proofing, but 2 methods I've tried lately -
Oven off (or just 2-3 minutes of warm-up to take the chill off), then a pan of boiling water sitting in the bottom with your dough on a shelf above it. (this made black flakes fall from the top of my oven, so that was shameful and I stopped trying it after the first go).
Boil water, and put the water in a normal saucepan with lid upside-down on top. Put your bowl/banneton of dough on the lid. Cover the dough. Refresh water if it needs more time/heat. This seems to work for me.

those sound like good tricks. above the fridge is usually a warm spot too. or you could go the other way and prove overnight in the fridge, in a plastic bag, works v well for me.

Yeasted breads prove quicker and at a lower temp though - i am less familz with them. from what i understand the yeast is more powerful so the fermentation goes quicker. hence the whole “punching it back” thing - ya gotta tame it!

ok this is a level of lore way over my head

If you want to make panettone you have to let it rise then punch it back 4 times in 24 hrs.

what if i dont though

then the yeasty beast is too unleashed

Tartine country white from sourdough starter.

http://imgur.com/gallery/e0YFyXv

Beautiful!

(update on loaf 2: it stales p quickly but was good fired for breakfast on day three and toast with soup for supper)

(loaf 3: saturday if i am spared)

We made a gargantuan boule of no-knead sourdough following the King Arthur recipe and it’s GREBT

I’d post pictures but it’s half eaten already. Can’t wait to make some open faced cheese sandwiches with it. 24 hour first rise and dutch oven is definitely the way to go. And kosher salt is better than sea salt imo.

Save y’all the googlin

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/no-knead-sourdough-bread-recipe

Makes a big one. We’re halving the recipe next time.

I think I've had good flavour and low strength - ie tends to go a bit pancakey - when i've tried a long proof. Probably needed more stretch & fold. Definitely game for trying again.

busy and a little low on starter so I tried my first yeasted bread, a nice simple white loaf. Just a completely different game - the dough behaves itself quickly, and the fucker swells fast.

I'm starting this BA focaccia today: https://www.bonappetit.com/recipe/easy-no-knead-focaccia

the first three recipes i googled for making a wholemeal loaf mention a loaf tin but obviously i can do it without a tin

(can't i)

hmmmmm it may be quite.... low and flat. the nice thing about a tin is that no matter what happens it’ll have a nice shape. you could use a round cake tin maybe?

i do have cake tins yes, but no way of working out what the volume equivalent is

(i realised* my wholemeal flour is in fact strong)
*(by reading the outside of the packaging)

opinions vary on the loaf-tins, acc.to the platform i quiz abt it

Well you can definitely try a free-standing loaf. You might try reducing the water a few percent to get a stronger, stiffer loaf that won’t go flat in the oven. (Though it might be fine anyway)

Definitely don’t succumb to the temptation of adding flour in the last stages of shaping your loaf, either because you have sticky hands, or because you want it stiffer, or what have you. Any flour you add after your various stages of rising etc will be UNFERMENTED and won’t taste good and will interfere with the action of the rest of the dough. Nothing wrong with a little dusting flour on your work surface or your hands when you’re shaping your loaf at the end, but don’t try to genuinely incorporate more flour at that stage.

so is part of the science here that a wholemeal loaf actually needs the heat to closer to the middle, via reduced distance (width is less) and also via conduction?

closer i.e. than a free-standing would-be spherical loaf (like the second one i made = a plain four loaf)

hmm I don’t know. I don’t think it matters. You want a really hot oven when you put it in, and reduce a bit after 20 minutes, regardless of what kind of loaf you’re making.

Freestanding, but shape it as a batard rather than a boule?

ALAB series

i will never not cross the streams

ok it is somehow the afternoon I am going to bake something instead of watching bakewithjack videos.

using woof's pan of boiling water method, my pos blob of wholemeal dough is rising like a mfer: punching down begins in two mins

i am making 2 x wholemeal baguettes from a recipe which used US cups = the worst of all measures

agreed

be gentle with the punching my friend

ok so here's what i don't really get: what does punching do when if i'm shortly required to re-knead that the second knead doesn't do

Nothing, probably - you’re right

ok these guys have browned nicely on top and sound hollow to the tap from above

BUT one of them had to be pried off the baking tray and both bases are worryingly soft (i have flipped them over and given them a last little blast)

caught a little on top thx to final blast but the base is now as i hope so

https://files.slack.com/files-pri/TV20059EW-F0113ULDAQJ/2020-04-04_18.33.35-2.jpg

woof i think i need an account in that 'workspace' to see that. i don't know who the administrator is.

Yes you do

Aha!

I've been charged with folding the sourdough today, as part of my working from home responsibilities.

Did that yesterday.

my nice downstairs neighbours sourced me some strong flour :)

what is a good recipe for starter if you have no yoghurt (i have no yoghurt)