I liked Cliff's mansion better than George's mansion
― Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Friday, 20 March 2020 01:43 (four years ago) link
mansion murders movie
― thou shalt not covid thy neighbour's wife (darraghmac), Friday, 20 March 2020 01:54 (four years ago) link
Been thinking about this again and one thing I was wondering about is that Cliff killed his wife. Why does Tarantino add this fact and the quick scene showing him pointing the speargun at her? Does this imply that Cliff killed her intentionally and got away with it (maybe dumped her body overboard)? Or does it mean Cliff killed her accidentally and was acquitted?
I guess this is to add an element of danger to Cliff. But then why does Tarantino make her (the wife) such a nag? So that the viewer can still like Cliff even though he killed his wife? That frankly seems cheap and sleazy. Par for the course with Tarantino, I guess.
Sorry if this was discussed above. I read the entire thread but don't recall if it was and wasn't going to read it all again.
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:58 (four years ago) link
It basically means that women who nag deserve to die.
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 18:59 (four years ago) link
I mean it sucks but it is a cliff’s-eye-view and cliff is a psycho
― felt jute gyte delete later (wins), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:00 (four years ago) link
it's also a memory within a memory in Cliff's mind, no wonder it skews his way
― flappy bird, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:03 (four years ago) link
the deeper into flashbacks the movie gets, the more overloaded and confused the semiotics become: hence the bizarre and very obvious Thunderball outfit/spear gun
― flappy bird, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:04 (four years ago) link
xp Is he a psycho? I didn't get that at all.
I didn't take the flashback as Cliff's memory as much as Tarantino showing us what happened, but that is more interesting/less troubling. I guess it could be a manifestation of Cliff's guilt over his wife's death, wondering if the accident was really an accident given how his wife was nagging him. That would be a more charitable (to Cliff) interpretation.
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:10 (four years ago) link
If he murdered his wife he may be a psycho yes!
― felt jute gyte delete later (wins), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:13 (four years ago) link
To me, the point is to sow doubt about Cliff. There's this unknown, dark undercurrent to his character that lives in the realm of Hollywood rumors. That scene could be his memory, but it could also be the way the Zoe Bell character and others imagined it went down. It's never resolved, but just lives there as a signal that he has a dangerous side that is rarely seen.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:15 (four years ago) link
Missing the key part that his wife was played by Rebecca Gayheart so cliff killed her before she could run over that kid.
― omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:15 (four years ago) link
xxp Lol, fair enough.
I just would find it hard to square psycho-Cliff with the presumably genuine concern for the possibility that Spahn was being taken advantage of (or worse) by the Manson family at the ranch.
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:16 (four years ago) link
I remember in the first cycle of this thread I was very mad at ppl for not clocking the reference to Natalie Wood even tho the wife is literally called Natalie
― felt jute gyte delete later (wins), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:17 (four years ago) link
I think what happened on the boat is obv left vague and he’s iirc a little drunk and it’s open as to whether or not it was accidental. Cliff is obv a low key bummed out dude at this point in his life who’s living in a shitty trailer so the implication is that whatever he did cost him a lot, which isn’t to say he wasn’t at fault nor didn’t deserve that kind of minor karmic justice.
― omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:23 (four years ago) link
it is played for laughs that he killed his wife on the boat for nagging him. it doesn't really seem particularly ambiguous in the least. I've already posted that here
― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:27 (four years ago) link
like him having the harpoon, his wife nagging at him, it cuts away from the scene with the implication that this is the moment he harpooned her
― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:28 (four years ago) link
in the theatre I was in this got a reasonably big laugh
Moodles otm
― Οὖτις, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:30 (four years ago) link
Jeez, Cliff not the only psycho I guess,
― Why, I would make a fantastic Nero! (PBKR), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:31 (four years ago) link
xp
I def think it's there to both make him *less* likable and explain why he's basically an industry bottom feeder, w/a pathological devotion to his only patron
― Οὖτις, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:34 (four years ago) link
the only guy who takes care of him is the guy who's ok with him having harpooned his wife, the extreme manifestation of their implicit "bros before hoes" bromance.
― Οὖτις, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:35 (four years ago) link
so much so that he doesn't even believe it
― flappy bird, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:36 (four years ago) link
The whole thing of him killing his wife is obv part of why stuntmaster Kurt Russell doesnt want to hire him (and stuntmaster’s wife hates him for that reason too) but between that & the war veteran part gives extra backstory/color as to why this affable handsome stunt guy is Rick’s manservant instead of working regularly
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:38 (four years ago) link
the reason we only see the lead up is no one other than cliff knows the truth. It’s not ambiguous as to whether or not he was responsible, we just don’t know if he decided to pull the trigger there.
― omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:39 (four years ago) link
or what shakey said
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:39 (four years ago) link
(xpost)
And yeah it makes him this more dangerous-seeming character than just an ordinary stuntman, he’s clearly working through some bleak shit whatever the truth about his past may be.
― omar little, Friday, 27 March 2020 19:40 (four years ago) link
like in Cliff’s mind he kicked Bruce Lee’s ass and maybe his wife was a goddamn nag and it is all with good reason, taking ppl down a peg or two to his levelbut -outside his own head- in the actual world of movie production he is arrogant unpredictable sonofabitch who has basically made himself unhireable
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 19:43 (four years ago) link
^^^
(although he may be genuinely humble at this point / believing he's living in penance for past transgressions)
I didn't take the flashback as Cliff's memory as much as Tarantino showing us what happened
Definitely his memory, he reacts to it when we cut back to present-day taps aff Cliff on the roof
― Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:07 (four years ago) link
just because it's his memory doesn't mean he's an unreliable narrator also
― COVID and the Gang (jim in vancouver), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:20 (four years ago) link
No, his reliability is unknown, not least of all because he is not a real person, but a character in a film, and the boat scene isn't an actual memory, but a filmed sequence edited together with other film sequences, in order to create possible linkages in the viewer's mind.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:25 (four years ago) link
lol ok cool
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:27 (four years ago) link
lock thread i guess?
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:28 (four years ago) link
Lock borad
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:29 (four years ago) link
yes
― Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Friday, 27 March 2020 20:35 (four years ago) link
moodles otm
an actual apocalypse and ye still at it
― ole uncle tiktok (darraghmac), Saturday, 28 March 2020 03:37 (four years ago) link
I mean, I know it sounds ridiculous to lots of folks on here, but we're pondering the reliability of a scene that is purposefully left ambiguous in the middle of a film about the fictionalization of historical events.
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 28 March 2020 03:51 (four years ago) link
such a mind you have, it’s really wasted on all of us
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:17 (four years ago) link
Lol, I'm not saying it's an original thought in any way
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:18 (four years ago) link
neither am I :D
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:43 (four years ago) link
Oh I know, thanks
― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:44 (four years ago) link
Cue "Ramblin' Gamblin'Man".
― "...And the Gods Socially Distanced" (C. Grisso/McCain), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:46 (four years ago) link
peace out in my karmann ghia
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 04:49 (four years ago) link
Anyone seen the long cut yet?
― piscesx, Saturday, 28 March 2020 09:46 (four years ago) link
There is no long cut yet.
― Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Saturday, 28 March 2020 09:47 (four years ago) link
Oh?! I thought it had been shown already. My bad. IMDB has this to say;
In October 2019, an extended cut of the film was released in selected theaters with an additional 10 minutes, made up of 4 new scenes which include an extended version of the opening scene, two fake commercials and a new after-credits scene.
― piscesx, Saturday, 28 March 2020 09:49 (four years ago) link
He showed lots of bonus material like that, and Bounty Law stuff, before screenings at the New Beverly for months too, but the theoretical four-hour version or Netflix miniseries is still in the future
― Dollarmite Is My Name (sic), Saturday, 28 March 2020 10:21 (four years ago) link
i really do want that in my life
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Saturday, 28 March 2020 16:15 (four years ago) link
finally saw this today. liked how they don't make rick dalton a joke. he's self aware enough and also seems p committed to actually doing a good job and he is good at his job imo. dog attack + flamethrower the perfect ending too.
― oscar bravo, Saturday, 2 May 2020 15:48 (three years ago) link