Steely Dan C or D?

overproduced is obviously a subjective term; to suggest it is anything else is ridiculous.

I guess we should change all the C/D threads on ILM to just C then

you should search the archives for the "can we find an artist that everyone on ILM likes?" threads. (hint: we couldn't)

I'm surprised there aren't more Dan haters to be honest.

When I first started getting into music, Steely Dan was a really really bad phrase. I first heard the name as a butt of a joke by some comedian on TV in the 80s.

It was until the 90s CD reissues that I heard the appeal, saw the light, etc. but as a Steely Dan lover, I'm not surprised by people who think they feel empty.

That said, I think anyone who doesn't like the music should go to the Dan's website and read their essays. You don't have to like the music to like Fagen/Becker's humor/sarcasm/whatever.

honestly too, i always feel like ppl exagerate how much of a "jazz rock" band steely dan was just cuz of some of the session dudes they used

res, do you like Soft Machine per chance?

Honestly, their most fervent supporters promote SD's lyrics rather too strenuously. I mean, their early stuff just rocked! And Fagen has almost everything I need from a singer of rock: wry, pinched, capable of unexpected grace notes.

i come from the opposite pov -- i was not a rock fan first, so it was the jazz oriented chords/harmonics that made them one of the first acts i fell in love with (70s stevie wonder & earth, wind & fire being the 2 major others).

I feel like to find the more direct "rock" element, you have to go back to 1972 with them.

xx-post

Alfred otm

but i'm a total sucker for their jazzy harmonic shit. chord changes sublime abound within their catalog

Alfred OTM^2. My favorite album is Can't Buy A Thrill for that reason.(Aja second for other reasons.)

Also, Can't Buy A Thrill was my gateway to liking Steely Dan, so maybe this is a good album for haters(?)

Honestly, their most fervent supporters promote SD's lyrics rather too strenuously. I mean, their early stuff just rocked! And Fagen has almost everything I need from a singer of rock

yeah my favorites are actually all the pre-Aja albums, tbh. I dunno about yr first sentence here tho - I am reminded of a conversation I was having with some studio engineers about Steely Dan, and they were all effusive about how great the records sounded and how tight and complex everything was, but when I mentioned how I loved how all that stuff contrasted with the lyrics I got blank stares, dudes didn't know "Dr. Wu" was about a junkie or that "Movies" was about a pedo. I lol'd.

those guys were musicians/studio engineers tho so maybe that's a bad example. Writers/critics are obviously gonna pay a bit more attention to language.

Also, Can't Buy A Thrill was my gateway to liking Steely Dan, so maybe this is a good album for haters(?)

it made me a convert too

Well, I've said on the Gaucho thread that it's my favorite album after Countdown to Ecstasy -- on a purely musical level too.

res, do you like Soft Machine per chance

don't think i've heard them. why?

well, i will try this thrill album just to expand my efforts... i tried aja and pretzel logic but several successive showers failed to make me feel clean afterwards, so i didn't think that there were others that might change my tune. we'll soon see.

I think the one thing I would hold against the Dan is that pretty much all their sleeve designs/album covers suck, with the exception of Katy Lied.

aja is a beautiful cover!!!

^^^ this

^^^^this

its... stylish, I'll give Phil Hartman that. I don't particularly like it tho. A bunch of their covers (Gaucho, Can't Buy a Thrill, the Royal Scam, Pretzel Logic) are downright stupid and/or ugly

phil hartman: stylish indeed

http://www.tributes.com/obits/tributes/phil_hartman/2680-1-photo.jpg

:(

Royal Scam & CBAT, no doubt. I'm not that fond of Countdown, either. But the rest are A-ok with me.

xx-post

Can't Buy A Thrill's cover is really gawdy but the rest are just fine.

the Pretzel Logic cover has a pretzel vendor on it. Get it? GET IT? For a couple guys with an otherwise sharp and unique sense of humor that joke is kinda uhhhh

i think the sarcasm thing is overplayed, and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time. aja's a beautiful record. the lyrics are compressed, bittersweet short stories. they're never glib. they kind of remind me of raymond carver stories, actually. steely dan: more populist than punk?

uhhhh the pretzel logic cover's great

the only one i don't like is 'countdown to ecstasy.' that font.

and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time.

I don't think the two are mutually exclusive - beauty and skin depth and all that yaknow...

okay- how do you guys feel about "Reelin' in the Years"?

Dueling guitars!

i think the sarcasm thing is overplayed, and i'd replace slick/empty with "gorgeous" most of the time.

yes. that.

solos are a little much on that one. harmonies on the chorus are killer. lyrics and lead vocal delivery are great. but not the best song on the album.

x-post

"Reelin'" isn't a favorite either. "Do It Again" (which I thought for years was a really sexy Santana song my parents never told me about), sultry and mysterio-so, is lots better.

only a fool would say that

is my favorite song.

I think my favorite Sopranos moment of the whole series is Tony driving away from his house, being followed by the FBI, on his way to do some bad shit, singing along to "Dirty Work" (which is my favorite song on Thrill - either that or Only a Fool Would Say That)

"Do It Again" (which I thought for years was a really sexy Santana song my parents never told me about), sultry and mysterio-so, is lots better.

weird! I totally thought that was a Santana song, like forever! haha

I really like "Reelin'"... also "Dirty Work", "Kings", "Fire In The Hole"

haha yeah...I didn't hear that song among my dad's Dan records growing up (he had mostly the later albums and Gold, which it isn't on for some reason), so there were about 10 years were I thought it was by Santana, and then another 10 years after that where I still thought it was Santana every time I heard it until the vocals came in.

also lol @ the idea of Alfred's parents saying "son, there's this one Santana song that really gets us in the mood that we'd like to tell you about"

I grew up with Santana! "Do It Again" was a hit around the time that Santana was HUGE, and its rhythms are similar.

oh yeah, like i said, i totally made the same mistake myself many times.

i feel strangely comfortable to feel that I'm not the only one who labored under that misapprehension

lol, and my dad also totally loved that song, like in the sense of he would crank up the car stereo's volume when it came on. my dad sorted me with some good music, all things considered...wow

add me to the list who thought it was santana as a child

i've been listening to Thrill and some stuff I'm pleasantly surprised with ("Change of the Guard"), but a lot of it are these 'anonymous' bad 70's songs that I'd hear on classic rock radio for years ("Dirty Work", "Do It Again", "Reeling"), and wonder who these awful artists were. Now I know, they're all probably Steely Dan.

Will continue listening.

Dude, you like Belle and Sebastian.

I think our collective confusion arises from the fact that Juelz Santana has a song called "Do It Again."