But yeah, agree that this was a good episode, a nicely paced "right before the storm" story that revealed the stakes and put all the pieces in motion for the two-parter finale.
― Tuomas, Sunday, 15 March 2020 11:03 (four years ago) link
The only thing I didn't like is the revelation that Captain Rios has a history with the androids and the Zhat Vash conspiracy too, even though he was supposedly just a random pilot Musiker happened to know. I get it that they wanted him to have a personal stake in the conflict too, but they could've come up with some other way of doing that, something that wasn't such ridiculous coincidence.
― Tuomas, Sunday, 15 March 2020 11:07 (four years ago) link
not too clear on how our heroes suddenly and magically realized the entire ploti missed any mention in previous eps of the 'conclave of eight' or any romulans drawing weird patterns, but i don't always pay close attention.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Sunday, 15 March 2020 21:43 (four years ago) link
also synthetics involve past a certain point and then "someone bad shows up"? eh?
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Sunday, 15 March 2020 21:44 (four years ago) link
it's like discovering warp engine technology and the Vulcans showing up to say hi
only instead of saying hi, the mystery people destroy your civilizations
tbh they could take a cue from the Star Trek mirror universe and just activate a bunch of artificial lifeforms while having some super weapons parked in orbit
― mh, Sunday, 15 March 2020 23:58 (four years ago) link
I just thought it was a strange way of putting it. Someone shows up? What? Who? 'They evolve past a certain point and then consider humanity redundant' makes more sense.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Monday, 16 March 2020 09:22 (four years ago) link
I've read some fan theories that this all ties to the Control plot of Discovery's season 2, and the prophecy seen there of Control destroying organic life in the entire galaxy is what this "someone bad" wants to avoid... I can't imagine they'd want to tie this series so closely to Discovery though, especially since (AFAIK) the plot was being written before Discovery's second season even came out. Apparently Michael Chabon wasn't even allowed to make overt references to DS9's Dominion War, so that it wouldn't confuse viewers not familiar with that series, even though that war is (according to Chabon) the biggest reason why the Federation has become more paranoid and isolationist.
― Tuomas, Monday, 16 March 2020 09:28 (four years ago) link
lol i've been ignoring all this backstory nonsense bcz i only very intermittently watched the various later iterations of SW anyway. if i have to look it up it didn't happen!!
― mark s, Monday, 16 March 2020 10:01 (four years ago) link
I don't think you're gonna find much backstory for this series in later iterations of Star Wars...
― Tuomas, Monday, 16 March 2020 11:27 (four years ago) link
In all seriousness though, you should watch Deep Space Nine. It's the best Trek series, it touches some of the same themes as this one, and nowadays it's all on Netflix.
― Tuomas, Monday, 16 March 2020 11:28 (four years ago) link
yes im probably not going to do that
― mark s, Monday, 16 March 2020 11:32 (four years ago) link
eh ultimately it's not that good but it's a way to pass the time. worf shows up, gets to do some good straight man bits
― j., Monday, 16 March 2020 14:54 (four years ago) link
"what did you do during the great self-isolation nuncle s?" "why i rewatched all of DS9!" *isolation door slammed shut and barred FROM THE OUTSIDE*
― mark s, Monday, 16 March 2020 14:57 (four years ago) link
>=(
― Archaeopteryx Morgan M.D. (Leee), Monday, 16 March 2020 21:59 (four years ago) link
boooo DS9 is gr8
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Tuesday, 17 March 2020 03:58 (four years ago) link
i cosign j.'s review.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Tuesday, 17 March 2020 08:15 (four years ago) link
Nah, even though Worf is indeed cool in Deep Space Nine and gets a better arc than he ever did in TNG, he's not even among the top 5 best characters of DS9.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 March 2020 08:36 (four years ago) link
Sisko, Kira, Garak, Martok, Nog?
― Archaeopteryx Morgan M.D. (Leee), Tuesday, 17 March 2020 14:56 (four years ago) link
Pretty much yeah, except replace Sisko with Odo, and maybe also Martok with Dax.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 March 2020 15:35 (four years ago) link
But Kira, Garak, Nog, yeah, those three are such compelling characters and they're given such great arcs that I can't really think anything comparable in other ST series... Maybe Data in TNG.The scene where Nog stands up to Sisko in his office made me cry more than anything Star Trek related ever has. It's awesome how the DS9 managed to save the Ferengi from TNG's joke species into something so much more.
― Tuomas, Tuesday, 17 March 2020 15:42 (four years ago) link
Nog made some bad career choices in retrospect.
― Philip Nunez, Tuesday, 17 March 2020 20:40 (four years ago) link
Join the Federation, see the worlds, they said
― mh, Tuesday, 17 March 2020 21:45 (four years ago) link
it is worth watching this episode with a good stereo system merely for the fact someone had fun doing the “borg cube exits conduit” noise
― absolute idiot liar uneducated person (mh), Thursday, 19 March 2020 22:09 (four years ago) link
Makeup effects crew really went to town with the shimmery highlighter palette
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 20 March 2020 16:21 (four years ago) link
This felt more like a TNG episode than any of the previous ones. Our team enters a planet where the inhabitants are living in a communal utopia in small location wearing space togas and doing gymnastics on the town square, but turns out one of the leaders is corrupting them, Picard tries to steer them away from the leader with a Picard speech, appealing to their decency, but the evil leader counters him... I mean, it must be an intentional TNG homage, right? No way would the showmakers have had them wear those togas if it wasn't.
― Tuomas, Friday, 20 March 2020 16:58 (four years ago) link
disappointed spiner didn't take the opportunity to differentiate the soong family by introducing Billy Bob Soong
― Philip Nunez, Friday, 20 March 2020 17:11 (four years ago) link
never trust any of those Soongs
― absolute idiot liar uneducated person (mh), Friday, 20 March 2020 18:04 (four years ago) link
the soongs remain the same
― mookieproof, Friday, 20 March 2020 18:13 (four years ago) link
these newfangled androids are totally soft, btw -- data survived far worse than that
― mookieproof, Friday, 20 March 2020 19:07 (four years ago) link
otm
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 20 March 2020 19:10 (four years ago) link
Someone shows up? What? Who? 'They evolve past a certain point and then consider humanity redundant' makes more sense.
So it was 'someone shows up' after all. I like my idea better. I doubt TNG actually featured more of that kind of existential threat than plain vanilla big baddies, but it feels like it might have done.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Saturday, 21 March 2020 18:12 (four years ago) link
jlp: "it feels like i'm looking at data!"the viewer: "it feels more like i'm typing data into a spreadsheet"
i am happy to accept this is mean but the dialogue very much delivered the open goal
― mark s, Saturday, 21 March 2020 18:25 (four years ago) link
I doubt TNG actually featured more of that kind of existential threat than plain vanilla big baddies, but it feels like it might have done.
The longest plot arc in TNG, which began in the very first episode and ended in the very last, was that humanity has evolved so far that the Q continuum has come to judge it and see if it's fit to go on.
― Tuomas, Saturday, 21 March 2020 20:14 (four years ago) link
Yes but you'd hardly know it as it's mostly played for laughs.
― Paperbag raita (ledge), Saturday, 21 March 2020 21:01 (four years ago) link
This was the first odd-numbered episode that I liked! I rolled me eyes at yet another secret Soong but Sutra (or was it Soji?) saying fascinating was just a delight.
― Archaeopteryx Morgan M.D. (Leee), Saturday, 21 March 2020 22:21 (four years ago) link
This felt more like a TNG episode than any of the previous ones.
A first season one at that. I was wondering what was going to happen if one of them stepped on a plant. (That said, still enjoying the general flow of the whole season.)
― Ned Raggett, Saturday, 21 March 2020 22:43 (four years ago) link
that gold-skinned version of our android kid seemed like a threat from the get-go
― absolute idiot liar uneducated person (mh), Sunday, 22 March 2020 02:13 (four years ago) link
ehh
― mookieproof, Friday, 27 March 2020 00:51 (four years ago) link
a billion times better than part one
― reggie (qualmsley), Friday, 27 March 2020 01:53 (four years ago) link
It was okay, and I loved that they found a nonviolent solution to the conflict in the spirit of TNG... But it still felt like every plot beat you expected to happen did: of course Starfleet will ride in as the cavalry, of course Picard's illness is gonna kick in right at the moment of climax, and of course they're gonna download him inside the android body they conveniently introduced last episode. The one thing I didn't expect was Data still being "alive", but OTOH the scene with him felt like total fanservice, just repeating the same points they already made when he died in Nemesis.The fight between Seven of Nine and the Zhat Vash was completely extraneous and pointless, like did they really have to go for action movie of "good guys' tough girl fights the bad guys' tough girl in the end"? They could've just had SoN shoot her and still get the same ending for her.
― Tuomas, Friday, 27 March 2020 15:15 (four years ago) link
Also, why the heck did all the Starfleet ships leave as soon as the Romulans left? Shouldn't one or two of them stayed behind just to oversee the situation, and to make sure some less diplomatically inclined Romulans wouldn't still try a sneak attack on the androids?
― Tuomas, Friday, 27 March 2020 15:18 (four years ago) link
Uggghhh, this was so bad. I lose points for following it through to the end.
― Miami weisse (WmC), Friday, 27 March 2020 15:30 (four years ago) link
Felt like I was that meme of Picard facepalming while watching most of this episode
― ( X '____' )/ (zappi), Friday, 27 March 2020 15:39 (four years ago) link
yeah it was ok but like Tuomas said a bit too neat, wrapping everything in perfect bows, it got a little rmde and like with Picard dying they leaned so hard on the “sadness” like THIS IS SAD ARENT YOU SAD OH ITS SO SAD and it left me kinda cold
― terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Friday, 27 March 2020 16:09 (four years ago) link
Also, the football
― groovypanda, Friday, 27 March 2020 21:54 (four years ago) link
Anyway next season will be “Oh yeah what happened to that Narek guy?” and it’ll be ten episodes of him wandering the cube going “Huh.”
― Ned Raggett, Friday, 27 March 2020 23:22 (four years ago) link
feel like the advanced picard manoeuvre will not stop as many spacerays as he imagines and they have to land somewhere and the planet is right there
― mark s, Saturday, 28 March 2020 19:14 (four years ago) link
omg get on with it
― mark s, Saturday, 28 March 2020 19:38 (four years ago) link
*turns back into yoda as is proper*
― mark s, Saturday, 28 March 2020 19:46 (four years ago) link
I definitely won't be watching the next season of this. I just thought it was rubbish. There were so many cool Borg connections and possibilities that they just left on the table, which just made me wonder why they bothered bringing the Borg into it at all. All very frustrating and dull.
― trishyb, Saturday, 28 March 2020 23:25 (four years ago) link