ECM: C/D, S&D

Figured this thread is a good place to post that I'm enjoying this IG account that's taking a look at all ECM albums in chronological order: https://www.instagram.com/ecm_listening/

It's a simple premise but fun to follow. Some of these early releases are blowing my mind. I particularly love the albums from Terje Rypdal, Marion Brown and Stanley Cowell Trio covered so far.

What exactly caused ECM’s nadir of the mid-late 1980s? Was it a matter of most of the ECM stable producing poor work at this time? Or was it a matter of Eicher choosing only to release the bad stuff?

A bit of the latter, a lot of the former as far as I can tell. Since I've got too much time on my hands, I may try to come up with a 'best of ECM in the 80s' list just for the hell of it.

Mostly because I'm not entirely sure we'd all agree on what constitutes ECM's nadir.

I'm sure there was some a+ Bley albums in the 80s on ecm, Dino Saluzzi..loads of other things I can't remember rn. So much good stuff I think "nadir" might be very harsh!

Avro Part is no nadir!

Calzino, Arvo Pärt releases are on ECM New Series, not ECM proper. In the opinion of some, Eicher's founding of the New Series side label is what got him out of a rut he was stuck in during this decade.

ok now I'm curious to know what ilxors consider to be truly the worst of ECM

what discs constitute said nadir? like I see the point but I’ve really enjoyed quite a few discs from that period over the last few years - I think a lot of stylistic aspects that might’ve made them feel unlovely at the time have aged pretty well (synths and drum machines, new age-y textures)

For reference some I’ve really dug from that era are ‘we begin’ by mark isham and art lande - ‘withholding pattern’ John Surman - ‘continuum’ Rainer Brunighaus et al - just off top of my head

Sorry multiple xp

I’ve seen a few people cite Shankar’s The Epidemics as the worst ECM release, and it sure is a stinker—Steve Vai on guitar!

wow! ok that's a must-hear, at least once.

It's definitely down there.

tbf, I've picked up some ECM releases that were incredibly corny, only to find out their release date was '74 or whatever

Theres a couple Michael mantler and Dob Preston releases that get a bit dungeon synth at times and which have "aged badly" and that shankar sounds shit but some of my favourite ecm is from the 80s (love all the 80s oregon albums for instance)

I bought this one when it first came out, after reading xgau's review:
Jack DeJohnette's Special Edition: Album Album [ECM, 1984]
Like so many of the best-liked new jazz albums, this one pays heartfelt respects to the carnivalesque--if you really wanted to, you could dance to it. But you'd probably rather listen, because at the same time it's highly composed, often dividing tunes into several distinct sections, and superbly played--John Purcell and Howard Johnson damn near keep up with master saxophonist David Murray. And beneath it all, tipping the balance between rowdy and civilized, is a Manfred Eicher mix that makes the record sit more like chamber music than DeJohnette could possibly have intended. A- He's right!

So turn it up, for me always on headphones, and no prob.

Excluding NS releases and without revisiting any of them, my 80s ECM faves look something like this:

Bengt Berger Band with Don Cherry – Bitter Funeral Beer (1982)
Bill Connors – Swimming with a Hole in My Body (1980)
Codona – Codona 2 (1981)
Codona – Codona 3 (1983)
David Darling – Cycles (1982)
David Torn & Geoffrey Gordon – Best Laid Plans (1985)
Hajo Weber, Ulrich Ingebold – Winterreise (1982)
Jack DeJohnette – Special Edition (1980)
Jon Hassell – Power Spot (1986)
Keith Jarrett – Dark Intervals (1988)
Keith Jarrett, Jan Garbarek, Palle Danielsson & Jon Christensen – Personal Mountains (1989)
Masqualero – Bande à part (1986)
Michael Galasso – Scenes (1983)
Paul Bley, John Surman, Bill Frisell & Paul Motian – Fragments (1986)
Paul Motian Band – Psalm (1982)
Sam Rivers – Contrasts (1980)

So yeah, it does skew rather heavily towards the decade's first half.

Dino Saluzzi - Once Upon A Time Far Away In The South

features a devastatingly beautiful rendition of Silence a oh and the Paul Bley Quartet w/ John Surman, Bill Frisell, Paul Motian from '87 was classic as well imo

I'm weird in that I prefer Saluzzi's later (00s and beyond) material. And yeah, I should've added that Bley Quartet to the list.

it probably is not as good as his later albums tbf but i wouldn't call it bad

That Jack DeJohnette band was good, but I really don't like Paul Motian in almost any context. His style of drumming just hits my ear all wrong.

His 70s ECM albums are even better, obv., but I've got plenty of time for his drumming regardless of context.

My favorite Keith Jarrett record is 1986's Book Of Ways, the album of clavichord improvisations that taught me what bebung is. Also Eberhard Weber's Later That Evening from 1982 is gorgeous.

bitter funeral beer is sublime

quite fond of alfred harth's this earth! from '84 with bley on piano & vocals from maggie nichols

New releases on ECM---won't let me paste, but some appealing copy re projects led by Avishai Cohen, Wolfgang Muthspiel, Carla Bley, Oded Tzur---press page here, with links to streaming sources and album trailers etc.:http://campaign.r20.constantcontact.com/render?m=1101632560908&ca=a58f0d68-50f1-46a9-aa74-a92a9f1efbe8

listened to the 3 codona albums today, still great!

Everything involving Don Cherry (the musician) and Collin Walcott is good by default. Beyond Codona, Naná Vasconcelos was more hit or miss, I'm afraid.

Pretty much everything Pat Metheny and Bill Frisell put out on ECM in the 80s is solid.

Hard disagree, but I'm in the minority here. Can't stand either except Frisell as a sideman and only on occasion.

I mean, yes, you probably have to like what they are doing in the first place to enjoy those albums. But I'd say for Pat Metheny in particular, a bunch of his best work is on those ECM albums, and I like what Bill Frisell was doing at the time more than most of his output from the mid 90s onward.

Pat Metheny’s last ECM release was 1984. I think that means he just barely missed the period that seems to be regarded as a nadir.

Figured this thread is a good place to post that I'm enjoying this IG account that's taking a look at all ECM albums in chronological order: https://www.instagram.com/ecm_listening/

It's a simple premise but fun to follow. Some of these early releases are blowing my mind. I particularly love the albums from Terje Rypdal, Marion Brown and Stanley Cowell Trio covered so far.

― cooldix, Friday, 13 March 2020 08:37 (two we

Nice!

listened to the 3 codona albums today, still great!

Dang did you catch a codonavirus or something?

A couple of '80s albums not mentioned in the revive that I like a lot: Don Cherry / Ed Blackwell ‎– 'El Corazón' (1982) and Jack DeJohnette - 'Inflation Blues' (1983). I haven't heard that many ECM records from the era, but I gather these don't really represent the stereotypical sound. 'El Corazón' is a really rich and varied duet album with some intriguing instrumentation (I probably listen to it more than the more-heralded 'Mu'), while 'Inflation Blues' also has lots of world music influences (DeJohnette even sings on the title track, which is almost political reggae). I love the cover art too. His solo stuff is pretty underrated, I reckon.

Xp. I made this pun today

I probably listen to it more than the more-heralded ‘Mu’

i’m not quite there, tho i spin it a lot. it’s a truly amazing record and i often feel like it transcends the normal human musical capacities of two people. a lot of don’s stuff is like that tho.

also y’all should check out the bitter funeral band live footage in the don cherry thread if you haven’t already

Yes, I'm heading over there. That's the thread that keeps giving!

im listening to all the ECM albums on Spotify chronologically as a little covid project

I did this in 2015-2016 (if memory serves). 10/10, I wholeheartedly recommend it to all.

Paul Bley, John Surman, Bill Frisell & Paul Motian – Fragments (1986)

This is about as good of a record as ECM ever put out. There is a bit of a sequel to this by a related band -- a bit freer but a similar vibe:

John Surman, Paul Bley, Tony Oxley, Gary Peacock, Adventure Playground (1991)

That's a lot of albums to listen too! Alright, putting on some Mal Waldron piano jams.

was surprised by the one-two of Mal Waldron Trio free at last and Paul Bley with Gary Peacock as they're both pretty standard contemporary jazz of the time, good records no doubt, but just in the hard-bop/post-bop veins (a lot of Paul Bley stuff of this era is way out there obv, like the synth stuff with Annette Peacock).

then Afternoon of A Georgia Faun by Marlon Brown and Music Improvisation Company is a one-two of free jazz and non-idiomatic free improv!

wonder when the first "ecm sound" (misnomer -there are many sounds on ecm records - but you know what I mean) type record will rear its head. I see "Janny G" himself with ECM1007 Afric Pepperbird coming up, maybe he could be the culprit (wrong word, I love "ecm sound" and Jan) but I seem to remember he was more avant grade for a stage in his early career

Early Garbarek is some of the best ECM shit, full stop.

Not ECM, but don't sleep on the Esoteric Circle LP, which features all the future ECM vets and gets way skronky

Early Garbarek is some of the best ECM shit, full stop.

About a month ago, I bought the 2012 Dansere box set, which contains 1971's Sart with Terje Rypdal on guitar, Bobo Stenson on piano, Arild Andersen on bass and John Christensen on drums; 1973's Witchi-Tai-To, with Stenson, Palle Danielsson on bass, and Christensen; and 1975's Dansere, with the same band as Witchi-Tai-To. I was shocked by how loud and skronky Sart is; there are passages that sound like David S. Ware and Keiji Haino going at it. I love it.

spinning garbarek’s “officium” rn. it’s an interesting idea but i’m guessing this will wind up in my sell / give away pile.

im listening to Afric pepperbird right now and jan is cooking skronkily, especially on beast of kommodo and the title track. ayler-esque at times

some very nifty bass from arild andersen also

Beast of Kommodo has been burned into my brain for the better part of 2 decades, such a killer tune