which is why it is so cool that the default retirement savings package for every corporate job now is a 401k and not a pension :/
otm
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 12 March 2020 15:23 (four years ago) link
catching a falling knife is v different from having a 401k.
― latin hypercube in shitspace (Sufjan Grafton), Thursday, 12 March 2020 15:35 (four years ago) link
If you're saving for 10/20/30 years out then panicking and taking money out now is the worst thing to do because you're essentially swallowing all the losses of the last few days rather than waiting for it to come back and potentially investing while things are cheap. If they don't come back then we will have bigger things to worry about because the underlying reason for that will be very bad indeed.
― Matt DC, Thursday, 12 March 2020 15:41 (four years ago) link
I invest 12.5% of my income (plus whatever my employer matches, I forgot) every two weeks, in mostly index funds. if I catch things while they’re cheap, good for me. Autopilot rules.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 12 March 2020 15:47 (four years ago) link
I have spent my whole adult life saying "in the long run, stocks grow, put money in there you can afford to save and never ever ever think about changing it until you're 65" -- I have almost 20 years to go and I'm sticking with that philosophy.
― Guayaquil (eephus!), Thursday, 12 March 2020 15:49 (four years ago) link
I took some gains last correction and have been holding my ira contributions as cash for basically just this moment
― Its big ball chunky time (Jimmy The Mod Awaits The Return Of His Beloved), Thursday, 12 March 2020 16:01 (four years ago) link
It's beginning ... confirmed layoffs already among:-- Port drivers in LA-- Hotel workers in Seattle-- Travel agencies in Atlanta-- Stage hands in Las Vegas-- Festival workers in Texas& more to come ..@abhabhattarai @byHeatherLong @rachsieg https://t.co/KZRrezrbGD— Jeffrey Stein (@JStein_WaPo) March 11, 2020
― brooklyn suicide cult (Dr Morbius), Thursday, 12 March 2020 16:04 (four years ago) link
Whirring overhead:
"On March 12, 2020, the Desk will offer $500 billion in a three-month repo operation at 1:30 pm ET that will settle on March 13, 2020."
― Sanpaku, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:21 (four years ago) link
Wednesday was an unsettling day on global financial markets, and not just because the stock market fell sharply enough to bring a decade-plus bull market to an end.Underneath the headline numbers were a series of movements that don’t really make sense when lined up against one another. They amount to signs — not definitive, but worrying — that something is breaking down in the workings of the financial system, even if it’s not totally clear what that is just yet.Bond prices and stock prices were moving together, not in opposite directions as they usually do. On a day when major economic disruptions resulting from the coronavirus pandemic appeared to become likelier — which might be expected to make typical market safe havens more popular — many of them fell instead. That included bonds of all sorts and gold.And there were reports from trading desks that many assets that are normally liquid — easy to buy and sell — were freezing up, with securities not trading widely. This was true of the bonds issued by municipalities and major corporations but, more curiously, also of Treasury bonds, normally the bedrock of the global financial system.
Underneath the headline numbers were a series of movements that don’t really make sense when lined up against one another. They amount to signs — not definitive, but worrying — that something is breaking down in the workings of the financial system, even if it’s not totally clear what that is just yet.
Bond prices and stock prices were moving together, not in opposite directions as they usually do. On a day when major economic disruptions resulting from the coronavirus pandemic appeared to become likelier — which might be expected to make typical market safe havens more popular — many of them fell instead. That included bonds of all sorts and gold.
And there were reports from trading desks that many assets that are normally liquid — easy to buy and sell — were freezing up, with securities not trading widely. This was true of the bonds issued by municipalities and major corporations but, more curiously, also of Treasury bonds, normally the bedrock of the global financial system.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/12/upshot/markets-weird-coronavirus.html
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:29 (four years ago) link
all i know is that because of Dodd Frank all these large financial firms should have funeral plans to unwind in an orderly fashion if they go under so they don't fuck the rest of the world.
― Yerac, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:34 (four years ago) link
I put half my 401(k) into a low risk bond fund this week. It rarely falls with my stock funds but it did this week.
― whistling (brownie), Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:36 (four years ago) link
Whoa what the hell was that spike
― frogbs, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:48 (four years ago) link
BREAKING: Fed is injecting $1.5 trillion into short-term lending markets, a rare move to try to calm investors' worries about coronavirus
― Josh in Chicago, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:49 (four years ago) link
just a little $1.5 Trillion injection
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:51 (four years ago) link
whoa whoa whoa what’s with the government interference
― brimstead, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:52 (four years ago) link
total student loan debt (federal + private): $1.6T
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 12 March 2020 17:59 (four years ago) link
lmao the bounce only lasted about 2 hours
― frogbs, Thursday, 12 March 2020 18:28 (four years ago) link
nbd, just inject another $1.5T every 2 hours
― Karl Malone, Thursday, 12 March 2020 18:29 (four years ago) link
Bitcoin took a 20% drop too, I'm guessing people are cashing out to cover their losses now
gonna be interesting to see how that acts in a bear market for the first time ever
― frogbs, Thursday, 12 March 2020 18:31 (four years ago) link
Based solely on having watched the Fed for the past few decades, I'd expect another multi-trillion injection fairly soon, though probably not again today. Liquidity is bound to be drying up and the Fed will always act to protect big financial institutions.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 12 March 2020 18:40 (four years ago) link
schwab.com has a lot of good resources about investing and such if you are interested. I like the fact that it gives you a DIY option to investing, rather than the traditional "we will manage your money and take a bunch of your money as fees for our service" brokerage model.
― sarahell, Thursday, 12 March 2020 19:52 (four years ago) link
Looks like by tomorrow we will have pretty much wiped out all of the gains of the Trump presidency. Probably even more than if you account for inflation.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 13 March 2020 04:54 (four years ago) link
to be a fly on the wall for that White House conversation
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Friday, 13 March 2020 04:55 (four years ago) link
― mh, Thursday, March 12, 2020 9:52 AM (yesterday) bookmarkflaglink
BTW, as much as I agree with this, pension funds basically depend on a mix of stocks, bonds and other investments to be able to pay retirees, so it's not like they're immune to this.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Friday, 13 March 2020 04:56 (four years ago) link
well, yeah, but the benefits themselves are derived from a set formula and it's entirely employer paid (other than those archaic contributory plans), so worst that happens is the trust gets severely underfunded and the company can't afford to fully fund it or fund it at all. and then possibly the PBGC has to step in. which it did quite often during the Great Recession.
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Friday, 13 March 2020 05:00 (four years ago) link
LOL some EU mkts banning short selling.here comes the predictable manipulated covering bounce
― Chief Kyiv, Friday, 13 March 2020 08:09 (four years ago) link
Surge!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 March 2020 13:39 (four years ago) link
Josta!
― ☮️ (peace, man), Friday, 13 March 2020 13:45 (four years ago) link
I give that esoteric joke an 8!
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 March 2020 13:47 (four years ago) link
When Coke introduced its Gen-X soda OK Soda, my friend joked that Pepsi should make Epsipe.
― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 13 March 2020 13:48 (four years ago) link
When all this (presumably/hopefully) settles down, I'm seriously considering getting the money I put into this Fidelity fund and putting it back into the bank. I don't have the stomach for this, I do think the insane swings the past two weeks indicate...insanity, and--after I took out the fund, duh--I sat down and looked at how my bank had been doing the past 10 years with what I had in there, and they weren't doing badly at all. (Canadian banks, I should mention, weathered 2008 infinitely better than American banks.) Other than looking at my statements at the end of every month, I rarely gave whatever I had invested with them a second thought, which is how it ought to be. I also, prompted by all of this, just read Roger Lowenstein's Origins of the Crash, about the dot.com/Enron/telecommunications meltdowns (pre-2008), and now all I can think is that there are CEOs dumping stock options and making billions during this.
― clemenza, Friday, 13 March 2020 13:56 (four years ago) link
oh yeah, during crashes, the ceos always end up fine. They were communicating to the lehman employees that everything was fine and not to worry when they were all protecting their own personal assets.
Some equities that I have on watch to eventually add are still way too high.
― Yerac, Friday, 13 March 2020 14:10 (four years ago) link
Some progressive ideas, as a treat.
🚨🚨🚨Suspending student debt payments during coronavirus among the options economic aides will be presenting to Trump, per treasury secretary Mnuchin— Jeffrey Stein (@JStein_WaPo) March 13, 2020
― xyzzzz__, Friday, 13 March 2020 14:18 (four years ago) link
oh please, please, please.
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Friday, 13 March 2020 14:20 (four years ago) link
Jan 20.And 8 weeks later. pic.twitter.com/Ms8fRt3Glo— Carl Quintanilla (@carlquintanilla) March 14, 2020
― Josh in Chicago, Saturday, 14 March 2020 19:22 (four years ago) link
In conclusion, the Dow Jones is a land of contrasts.
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 14 March 2020 22:39 (four years ago) link
well, yeah, but the benefits themselves are derived from a set formula and it's entirely employer paid (other than those archaic contributory plans), so worst that happens is the trust gets severely underfunded and the company can't afford to fully fund it or fund it at all.
worst that happens is the employer is the government and due to underfunded pension plans, government services are cut in order to balance budgets resulting in increased poverty, homelessness, dangerous and decaying infrastructure, underfunded schools, and all the other problems facing American cities with financial problems in this day and age.
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 March 2020 17:54 (four years ago) link
I know this isn't the ACAB thread but ... even in retirement, cops punish marginalized people -- because their pension obligations take away from city services for vulnerable populations (and yeah, normal people too)
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 March 2020 17:56 (four years ago) link
I know cops are unpopular, because too many of them are racist pigs, but public employee pensions are a boon to millions of people who aren't cops and never were. Forcing everyone onto 401K plans basically force feeds the equities market like a Strasbourg goose, which is periodically killed and its liver made into pâte d' fois gras for rich people.
― A is for (Aimless), Sunday, 15 March 2020 18:46 (four years ago) link
public employee pensions are a boon to millions of people who aren't cops and never were.
why yes! my father was a public school teacher and has a nice state pension. ... Maybe it's different in other parts of the country, but in California, many public employee pensions are funded at the state level, rather than the local level, which is less of a problem for individual cities because the burden is spread state-wide. Cops' pensions tend to be funded at the municipal level.
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 March 2020 18:51 (four years ago) link
Cops also get paid way more than teachers, and their pensions are a lot higher as well.
― sarahell, Sunday, 15 March 2020 18:52 (four years ago) link
My parents once were bitching to me about my brother who was being forced to retire early from the police department (because he fell down an elevator shaft, got tackled and screwed up his knee, had a heart attack at 39 so he basically was on desk duty (he is very, very not suited for anything desk related) and was expensive to insure). The big issue was that the dept was trying to pay out only a portion of his pension since he wasn't going to make it, just barely, to the full 20 years. My entire family is against anything remotely socialist except the stuff they benefit from directly. So of course I was unsympathetic to the argument that he deserved that money and it was his. I just kept questioning how much of the pension he had contributed to directly
― Yerac, Sunday, 15 March 2020 21:38 (four years ago) link
WaPo: Federal Reserve slashes interest rates to zero as part of wide-ranging emergency intervention
― Sanpaku, Sunday, 15 March 2020 21:42 (four years ago) link
um, wait, i can refinance a home with a 0% interest rate now?
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 15 March 2020 22:35 (four years ago) link
ah, no of course not; that would benefit the wrong people i suppose
― Fuck the NRA (ulysses), Sunday, 15 March 2020 22:37 (four years ago) link
I wanna refinance every CEOs head with the back of my foot.
― sorry for butt rockin (Neanderthal), Sunday, 15 March 2020 22:39 (four years ago) link
The Federal Reserve has always been of the banks, for the banks, from its inception. Don't expect socially responsible action, only action that preserves Finance, and more generally, FIRE.
Zero interest rates seems nice, until you discover pensioners depend on interest income to eat.
― Sanpaku, Sunday, 15 March 2020 22:47 (four years ago) link
As I post this, per cnbc.com, Dow futures are down +1,000. It's going to be a bumpy day.
― Life is a banquet and my invitation was lost in the mail (j.lu), Monday, 16 March 2020 00:07 (four years ago) link
I really really wonder if/when they will close the market.
― Yerac, Monday, 16 March 2020 00:10 (four years ago) link
it completely seems like something that trump would pressure them to do.
― Yerac, Monday, 16 March 2020 00:12 (four years ago) link