no boys allowed in the room!!!!

I thought that endometrial ablation procedure two years ago was supposed to drastically reduce my periods? I'm practically back to my old heaviest flows. I don't even cramp noticeably, it's just a hassle to keep up and replace my latest soaked-through tampon (especially when I have long bus rides to and from work).

And I assume I am not the first to notice that classical performance of femininity requires pretending that normal body phenomena aren't happening to YOU (sweat, periods, body hair)?

Yep! Basically you should pretend you don't have a body or specifically a vagina that exists in any context other than when someone else wants to fuck it and then it goes away and doesn't cause them any problems.

It's all nonsense, of course, and fatal to believe on any level. It's annihilation. I try to push back in a tiny way by telling everyone I'm having hot flashes so could they please open the window?

<3 that’s absolutely the spirit

I have been getting night sweats for the past 6-8 months ... probably medication side effects and not "the change" ... I end up having to do more laundry though ... on the plus side, it is a rationale for buying more clothes

I thought I was through mine - went 3 months without a period over last year - theryve come back now and theyre worse than ever, and Im constantly fatigued and forgetting things a LOT and dropping stuff and it is exactly how my mum had it (she called it "the dropsies" for years) and I already hate this.

I've been on hormones for 4 months now. (Which is a weird thing, in and of itself, like, if you want the trans hormones, you have to go on a waiting list for several years and be examined by a billion cises going "but are you *sure*!?!?" but if you're an AFAB of a certain age, just look at a doctor and they will shove you out the door with a prescription.) And they did help with a lot of things.

And now I am coming off hormones cold turkey, because there are nationwide shortages, and no chemists anywhere in my neighbourhood even seem to have any in stock any more? I mean, it should be a national scandal how an entire class of medications can just disappear from the shelves, and this has been known to be going on for nearly a year - but literally no one gives a shit because the two groups it affects are AFABs over the age of 40 and trans people, and our government sees these groups of people as completely disposable non-persons?

I'm fucking furious (and oh, hey, the hormones were one of the few things that ever helped with the anger) and also I'm so tired I just want a nap.

from over here in an informed consent state in america, yeah it absolutely is a complete fucking outrage. the nhs has a systemic policy of denying (through artifically restricting access) what is proven to be the most safe and effective treatment for gender incongruence, which is an easily and cheaply treatable condition which, if not treated, has serious health consequences for those affected, up to and including death. i understand why nobody has gone full larry kramer over there about it yet - there are significant costs to being larry kramer - but my feeling is that it's the only way shit is gonna change over there.

K8, you probably already know that I am just endlessly disgusted with our shitty government's endlessly shitty treatment of trans people. But this current situation goes well beyond that - like I'd honestly be the first person to say if I thought this was deliberate. But most research seems to indicate that this is sheer incompetence and government mishandling and the law of the unintended consequences and bad decisions at every stage of the supply chain:

https://members.tortoisemedia.com/2019/11/28/the-great-hrt-scandal/content.html

But the reason that no one is bothering to do anything about it, is because... who gives a shit about medication that only affects old women and trans people?!?!? Certainly not anyone in this government.

It's beyond incompetence at this point. Where, with this government, you have to start wondering if the incompetence is deliberate. But it's also exhausting to think this way.

i wouldn't really say that there's necessarily an overt conspiracy against trans people and afabs either, but the term "depraved indifference" tends to pop up in my darker thoughts a lot. :( the sort of people who in america if you asked them to say "black lives matter" instead would say "all lives matter" or "blue lives matter" or something like that because they can't bring themselves to say it... saying "trans lives matter" or "women's lives matter" seems like it would be difficult for a lot of people as well.

the posts about tara reade, y'all

this shit never ends

i am EXHAUSTED

I know. I feel for you, esp as a person who works with survivors/recovering people. I had my huge freakout about it a few weeks ago when Bernie dropped out. I read the interview and it fucked me up. Since then I’ve been stoically sending her interview to anyone I think needs to see it. Beyond that I need to shelter my brain from it bc Im vulnerable :(

Sending a ghost hug to anyone who needs it

ive been tbh pressuring my agency to make a statement about it and some folks' reticence to do so is also demoralizing

like the masters tools will never dismantle the masters house yall

The most demoralizing thing for me is seeing people desperate to malign the survivor and deny their account/truth/reality — I can’t put myself through that over and over. It’s corrosive for me to the point of being debilitating.

Your post on fb summed it up for me entirely. The problem is YOU — the people who demand a full nitpicking to the death of the survivor. It’s awful beyond comprehension.

yes. i totally feel you on the putting yourself through it over and over. it's been taking a legit physical toll on me.

Kinda feeling this

...ok, but if the only time you ever seem to care about sexual abuse is when talking about it might take down one of your enemies, people might be right to accuse you of weaponizing women's oppression to suit your own ends.

— love one another (@girlziplocked) April 28, 2020

it has been brutal. every day is brutal. i am just done with people, especially cis dudes, talking about reade's "credibility" as if they were the god damn judge of all the earth. is it really going to be this bad or worse until fucking november or beyond?

oh you saw the thread. christ, i don't know what to do, i don't want to ignore those toxic-ass motherfuckers but people who are that goddamn dismissive of women... i mean it literally is nearly all cis guys, isn't it? i can't bloody well say "well i am just never going to talk to a cis man again".

I told my mom that my #1 priority right now is to stay calm, keep my head on straight. Anything that tips me into dysregulation puts me at risk — and getting angry is just as bad for me as getting sad/depressed. I can’t afford to lose my balance right now because Its so extremely difficult to recover once it’s lost.

Which reminds me — if you’re not including balance activities in your exercise routine, I strongly recommend adding some.

reading these things, participating in forums, etc. rn is def a kind of self harm

but also i don't want there to be no voice in there saying what's gotta be said?

but also i literally can't do it anymore really for my own health

I don't know which thread that is, maybe I haven't dipped into it? I don't think I would have as much of a reaction so I don't mind getting into it except for the tedium, natch. When I feel bad, I go outside and poke at some plants or pull weeds. I guess that's my balancing act for now.

Stacey Abrams, nnoooo.

You have my support in withdrawing -- I'm relieved that people like you, who I respect, who are fighting rape culture every day, understand why I need to. It's because I need to survive if I want to keep doing the generally good work I am doing in my life. I am not garbage; I am not worthless.

When Bernie dropped out and I decided it was time to find out why everyone was using the word "rapist" so much referring to Biden, I knowingly inflicted self-harm. But I had to know. It took me ~ 5 days to recover physically, mentally, emotionally. And that's 5 days and not 5 months because I am practiced at recovering...because I have been doing it for a very long time.

Maintaining equilibrium and balance remains my #1 priority. Without it, I can't function. Shout out to my therapist, without whom I wouldn't have realized this and probably would have detonated sometime around the fall of 2018.

totally understand roxy. if it helps none of us are in this alone, just say what you need to say when you need to say it and that will be enough. i drop in and out of these conversations all the time and i'm sure it infuriates the people who have Serious Questions for me but i gotta stay healthy, you know?

i'm literally taking a sick day today because of how bad the biden thread fucked me up yesterday. my wife worries about how hard i push myself with these things, it's it's a legit concern, but i work hard to allow myself to not be perfect

If things are fucking you up to the point where you are taking sick days to recover, I would say that it's time to reassess your engagement with whatever triggered you. Honestly -- I say this from experience, which I will not detail. You're gonna have to take my word for it! :) Treating one's own triggers, whatever they may be, as potentially lethal has changed my relationship to inflammatory material.

thanks ll. it is a constant struggle for me - how much to engage, when to speak up, when to step back and take care of myself, and i don't always get it right. i definitely appreciate your encouragement, because i know i should, at the very least, be taking a break from that thread. you know how that temptation is, though!

i try to remember that there is no right or wrong -- the bottom line is that you (I, we) have no obligation to engage in any public conversation that makes us feel fucked up for days. this is what i tell myself when i feel bad for not publicly saying more than i do. i don't say much! it's better for me to protect myself and continue to contribute to society than to immolate.

i definitely know the temptation -- please take care <3

for the record my experience of you has been that you're a wonderful person i've found that your being around here has made this site, and honestly, my life, brighter and happier on a fairly regular basis :)

hey thanks. that's what i mean about being my best self/contributing to society -- i can only be my best self and contribute to society in equilibrium. it's where i am continually trying to remain.

thank you la lechera, in orbit, and kate for your posts <3

trying so hard to stay out of the weeds

y'all, i'm sorry, i'm just having a real hard time letting this go

i didn't look at the thread after my last post wednesday or thursday but of course it's a huge clusterfuck, of course it's leaking out all over the board, people keep posting about it on other threads and starting new threads to Not Talk About It and the whole atmosphere around here is so oppressive and scary

i'm trying so hard to not apologize to tombot, because i don't believe anything i said is wrong, but at the same time i know what happens when you say, essentially, "see, what you just said is a perfect example of what's Wrong With Cis Men", nobody's going to take that as a constructive opportunity for reflection and learning, but i did happen to see a post he made on one of the bleedover threads and of course he's raging, which of course especially means i shouldn't apologize to him because apologizing to an angry man is exactly what i need to _not_ to

in the meantime, you know, my wife is a moderate and she gets upset about "bernie bros" and, you know, we respect each other, i do find that anybody you can name has a significant chunk of dudes following them around who "support" them by talking shit about women. she listens to and respects me, i listen to and respect her, even when we don't agree, but it's been months since i've talked to another living soul in person and throwing the biden thing on top of that... i'm a fucking wreck, is what i'm saying, an absolute fucking wreck. i guess everybody else is too. everybody has shit they worry about, shit that hits them particularly hard, this particular shit, this hits me hard, because here it is another morning, another 2 am, and this is keeping me up.

i know there are some guys here who listened to what i said wednesday morning, who took me seriously, and that's a lot of what's keeping me going right now. there's another "left" board that my wife posts about food on, that helped me out some when i was starting to come out, and i haven't been there in months but one hears things. what i hear is that the mods there have completely lost their shit and are banning everyone who calls biden a rapist. in the meantime i talked to a co-worker about this yesterday and it was a good talk, she was really kind and understanding, but she hadn't heard shit about any of this. what happens when this stuff isn't just the internet fringe? worse, what happens if what's going on now never even gets beyond twitter? people shit-talk twitter, and by "people" i mean "me, specifically", and in this case they're just _aware_ of something that most people aren't, at all.

anyway i don't think there are answers here, or at least if there are answers they're not _my_ answers, this shit isn't _my_ personal responsibility, but i needed to vent. thank y'all for being here. idk what i'd do without someone i could talk honestly about this stuff to.

you don't have anything to apologize for

if Biden wasn’t running for president against trump, I think if this very specific situation wasn’t in play, the left’s reaction to TR’s accusations would have been a lot different. I think people are so scared of another trump term, they’ll do anything to stop it. And honestly, I get it - it’s that whole killing one person to save a million thing, to them. It sucks, and I believe TR too, but I get why people are scared to believe her. There is a lot at risk if trump wins again - RBG isn’t going to live forever and if trump gets to add another pick to the Supreme Court, this country is fucked for years and years to come.

I’m mad that it’s come down to this type of Sophie’s choice bullshit. Biden should’ve never run. This should’ve been a race between Bernie and Warren. The left should’ve united during this primary. Instead we got all this back biting and petty bullshit that left everyone bitter and pissed off, leaving a perfect spot for Biden to glide into.

I’m mad our choice is between two rapists.

And the people saying she’s making it up bc she was vague about exactly what he did: I’d suggest they try saying aloud to their friends and family
“This guy raped me with his fingers”
“This guy fingered me aggressively without consent”
Surely I’m not the only one who would find saying this somehow more mortifying than saying “I was raped” (implying by a penis).

if it was just killing one person? you know, honestly, i'd probably be ok with that, even if that person was me. there is a lot at stake here.

but to me? to me this isn't about tara reade, really. this is about actually doing something about rape culture, about going from "rape is bad*" to "rape is bad". i don't blame the women who are abandoning #metoo over this, i understand the pressure they're under. the cis guys, though? the things they're saying and doing, the excuses they're making, the way we get blamed and pressured into apologizing pre-emptively and making their feelings, feelings in many cases they can't even take responsibility for, our responsibility.

it's not tara reade, it's the millions before her, the vision of millions more to come, the hope that we'd reached a point where enough of us could say "no, this is not ok", that we could work together on this, and the betrayal, the ongoing betrayal, the not-unexpected but still deeply painful dashing of that hope.

i'm not putting this on the left. i'm not putting this on bernie or on warren or on the backs of anybody, _anybody_, right now except for rapists and the men who make excuses for them.

Kate, I'm going to say this in the kindlest, gentlest way I know how (though I am neither a kind nor gentle person by nature).

Right now, you need to go and find those good essays on Self Care (like, the Audre Lorde ones, not the ~commodification of feminisms~ ones) and read them. Like, really read them, and think about them.

Self care isn't about facial cleansers and scented candles or whatever - it is about not allowing yourself to be *broken* by the struggle. Self care can mean choosing to walk away from what feels like the most important fight in the world, because that is the fight that will break you, and there will be another fight again tomorrow, and you need to still be in reasonable shape for that next one.

I say this as someone who has absolutely been broken - to the point of my GP packing me off to the emergency room for a psych evaluation - by arguments on ILX. You have to accept that there are people you will *never* change by saying "water is wet, and the nose is commonly found in the centre of people's faces" over and over again. And continuing to keep up that argument is something that changes *you* - not them. It is CRITICAL, for your own protection, to say what needs to be said, then get out before you get broken.

I know, it feels like "letting them win" and it is so frustrating and angry-making. But you know what is also "letting them win" - is allowing yourself to be so beaten down and exhausted and broken, that you do yourself permanent damage. Because that is the point of those kind of arguments. The point IS NOT changing minds or hearts or one side making a plausible case that convinces you. The point IS breaking you. It costs them nothing to go on with the endless excuse making. It costs us SO MUCH to counter it, and they know it - they count on that disparate emotional cost in these kinds of arguments.

With that understanding in mind, self care means setting yourself a limit, and when you find yourself hitting that limit - or even getting near - bow out and walk away. The argument will still be there tomorrow. And the next day. And the next, because these things change so glacially slowly. The point of knowing when to walk away is making sure that *YOU* are still here tomorrow. And the next day.

Thank you Branwell. I do hear what you're saying, and you're not alone in saying it. I know you're right. I'm not OK right now, and I'm trying to practice self-care, and I guess I'm having trouble with it. I don't really know how to practice self-care effectively right now.

I am having trouble figuring out how to walk away from this. I'm not in this to fight. This isn't my responsibility, I know this. I just don't know where "away" is right now. Literally or figuratively.

"Away" can mean so many different things for different people.

-It can mean putting all of your thoughts into a highly charged political blog where you say everything you need to say, but never enable comments, ever.
-It can mean starting a purely aesthetic insta/tumblr/image sharing platform of your choice where you have 0 politics and only beautiful pictures that please you
-It can mean turning off the internet entirely and reading a book (up to you if you want to read something completely escapist, or something which reassures you with the righteous rage of politics you know are true)
-It can mean reaching out to someone else you know is struggling, and doing an act of caring that both lightens their load and makes you feel less helpless

(Incomplete list, other people please feel free to add your own "away" methods and strategies?)

I think the key is finding something that works for you and then reliably doing it when you need to. That’s not very specific obvs but I could list activities all day long and it would not solve the problem. The issue is to learn to effectively protect yourself and that’s not something a list of activities can do.
Recognizing what I had considered merely difficult times as genuine dysregulation of my nervous system was a turning point for me. You may have a different one. Hope you feel better soon.

thanks all. this is, uh, intensely personal and private stuff. i'm not sure how much more i can say about it right now, how much i feel comfortable saying about it, but i want you to know i really do appreciate everybody here.

branwell i really needed to read that post. thank you

hey all, I’ve never posted on here - just wanted to say though this thread has been a lifesaver whenever I’ve needed some respite from ilx’s general... maleness.

Like right now I’m getting annoyed by the Fiona Apple thread where a dude who freely admitted not to have read a piece written by a woman still felt the need to comment on how wrong her opinions are, while of course getting her opinions completely wrong in the process because he hadn’t read the thing that she wrote. This shit is exhausting as fuck.

It is exhausting, and jedi mind hugs / virtual cups of tea to whoever needs them.

I've got to the point where I've pretty much given up reading any ILM thread about any female artist, at all? Well, the ones who have chart success of critical acclaim, at least. And when I end up doing it, girding myself forewarned with the knowledge that the vast majority of people posting in those threads are not posting about those individual women at all; they are posting about their feelings about women performing or making a spectacle of themselves in the first place. Just filter their reactions through that - whether it's "this artist is my perfect manic pixie dream musician who can do no wrong" or "this evil attention-seeking harpie I cannot bring myself to stop staring at makes my skin crawl". If a man is criticising a woman's journalism without reading it, he is not criticising her specifically, he is just venting his ~general opinions~ on women in journalism? Which... who needs it?

LOL, something that made me actually laugh the other day - on that "do you ever self censor and how do you feel about it" thread, someone suggested there should be a thread for people to say the things they self censory, and I just snort-laughed out loud because my dude, what do you think "no boys allowed in the room" is for?

Hello ladies, very fresh here due to constantly feeling intimidated for reasons I haven’t quite assessed but I feel safe here. I also have felt compelled for the first time to read through an entire thread and I’m not sure if that’s something to do with me or with ILX or what.

I feel completely disengaged from discussions of politics and social justice though my heart is in the right place. I understand feeling enraged to the point of psychological collapse but I don’t have that same investment. Maybe as a teenager I did. I feel I’ll-equipped emotionally to do more than observe and shake my head.

It is heartbreaking what is happening. We’re living an utter catastrophe. I feel so guilty for not being violently angry. I guess I feel sad or powerless (new feelings that just by articulating myself here I’m beginning to uncover).

I want to say Kate that your emotional vulnerability is something I can relate to and this discussion has inspired me to maybe be a little more proactive and dig a little deeper and not be so complacent about political engagement.

Ill-equipped*

Carry on.

hi variablearea, i'm sort of taking a low-key break from the board right now, we'll see how long it lasts, but welcome, whatever your feelings, whatever your experiences are, i'm glad to see you here.

one of the things that does have me feeling sensitive, having slept on it some, is these experiences all being, you know, extremely new to me. it's not how i was raised, and i do feel super conflicted about it. i was saying last friday, i was the victim, for 40 years, of a terrible mistake, and as a result of that awful mistake i was treated and told that my experiences and perspectives were worthwhile, that i was a valuable person.

that's not an experience a lot of cis women have had, and i do find that unfortunate, i do deeply regret it. i haven't learned to put my feelings on a shelf like that. it's not something i _want_ to learn. and people are telling me, you know, honey, if you want to stay alive in this world, you need to learn how to let that stuff go, even though it's not fair or right and we all know it's not fair or right, that's just how things are, that's what we need to do. i understand that, i relate to that, i preach that - do what you need to do to survive, that's the message i spread to anyone who will hear it, over and over and over - but i am struggling with it right now, struggling really hard.

you know, honey, if you want to stay alive in this world, you need to learn how to let that stuff go, even though it's not fair or right and we all know it's not fair or right, that's just how things are

I don't know how much of that is a gendered thing, though? Like a lot of cis-men I am close to also grew up that way. White ones, to boot! I feel like younger women (millennials and younger) have received less of that "training"? I do remember several years ago going to a work meeting with a colleague (she was about my mom's age at the time -- in her late 60s) and the meeting was with a consultant about redesigning our organization's website. And the consultant (a Boomer white cis-male) was super condescending to the point where I kinda called him on it. I think I pointed out that some of my housemates and classmates when I was in my early 20s were some of the first wave of web designers and programmers and I was pretty familiar with a lot of these things he was acting like I couldn't possibly know. Anyway, when we got back to the office, my colleague was upset that I wasn't polite to the consultant and that I should have just let him be condescending. And she said basically, "I know it's frustrating, believe me, I have been dealing with this type of thing since the 1950s, and it was even worse back then!"

idk. i get what you're speaking about, but this particular experience is something i haven't ever experienced when presenting as male but does show up with particular frequency when presenting as female. "self-care" as fatalism, as surrender, i hate to bring up beyonce but that whole "don't hurt yourself" thing. that's different from the situation where asshole boomer guys (women too, but particularly guys) won't ever shut up, don't understand appropriate boundaries, and can't take accountability for their own emotions, which is a cross-gender issue and is more of an implicit "look just give it a couple more years and he'll probably be dead" thing than "this is the way the world has always been and you will only hurt yourself trying to change it" thing.

That is the opposite of what people are actually saying in this thread? And please stop with this "honey" business because I am finding that quite patronising.

What people are saying is:
-choose your battles wisely
-know what your limits are and stop before you hit them
-perserving yourself is a radical act
-conserve your energy to focus on things that will actually affect change

Stuff that I've found genuinely changes things:
-working personally on changing attitudes and systems in your workplace, home, school, etc.
-getting involved with political pressure groups that work on changing the system from inside
-getting involved with grassroots groups that work on removing the system from outside
-donating money if involvement is not possible
-volunteering time if money is an issue
-one on one discussions with individuals who seem like they are actually open to learning

Stuff I've found is a self-destructive waste of time:
-arguing endlessly with fools on the messageboards

Living under oppressive systems is hard. It takes a long-haul approach. It's so seductive to believe that you, single-handedly, overnight, are going to overturn 5000 years of oppression that all those other ~ladies~ have just been sitting around just fatalistically just accepting, because oh those complacent little ladies, they don't know or understand their own conditions and experiences, not like *you* do. Oh wow, have I been there.

Something else that people who are raised as men take for granted: that women / other AFABs exist to provide endless unconditional succor and support and fix their feelings for them when they get hurt. AFABs know you can never take this for granted - the reason feminists talk about Sisterhood so much is because we experience it so rarely. We try to support one another, because women are traditionally supposed to be comfort-givers, not comfort-takers. But if you have been raised as a comfort-taker, and insist on going around bashing your head against brick walls, safe in the knowledge that someone else will always be a comfort-giver and tend to your damaged head - there's a point where you have to stop and consider whether you are actually dismantling the brick wall with your head, or just demanding more resources from the people who are trying to dismantle the brick wall safely, slowly, and without causing too much injury to themselves because no one is going to fix them when they break?

I will regret hitting submit post the moment I do it, but here we go.