should other people have different opinions?

What is so bad about the politics threads?

― nashwan, 5. marts 2020 10:03 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

This should be it's own thread, imo...

yes, start that

but would you need separate threads to ask it of each of the uk/us political cultures?

poll

the best thinkers who i know and like, they don't see the need for it

slept on imo

option needed for "ive already posted a tweet about this"

On the one hand, the problem is the same both places: Voters getting too invested in their own candidates, and losing the ability to sort between facts and fiction. The solution is also the same: Both threads need more foreigners to keep it all calm and objective #votefredformod

Otoh, the American progressive movement just had a very bad week, and the Dem primary thread has 2200 new replies repeating the same arguments over and over and over. And yet I don't think it dissolved into personal abuse even once? So looked at from another angle, that might be the most impressive space on the internet, no?

""nb board is shite now, started with US politics threads, uk ones are now far worse obv except for the past few days where its kinda like orders of ten rather than the usual orders of millions"

I respectfully disagree.

this thread is far too thatsbait.gif, so I am avoiding the chance to navel gaze (even if the notion that the UK threads need more foreigners is hilarious. Maybe we’re not the right kind!)

the reason i avoid the political threads like - well, i'd say "like the plague" but i'm pretty sure i have the plague right now and i'm pretty ok with that - is that they do never get anywhere for me, it's people shouting opposing talking points at each other, nobody listens...

and that's not _other people's_ problem. if i say something and people start arguing with something i didn't say, or change the topic, or say "oh and you think you're so perfect and have all the answers?"

well maybe i didn't say what i thought i was saying, or maybe the person i'm talking to isn't in a place where they can acknowledge and accept that i am being honest, i am arguing from what i've seen and read. the stuff i'm saying, it's stuff that four years ago i would have argued with, argued vigorously with.

people gotta deal with what they're going through in their own time, in their own way, and when they can no longer hold on to beliefs that once served them but are now hurting them, well, i hope they will have the strength to let go, but that's not up to me. for people i don't know very, very well, nothing i say or do is going to have a predictable, measurable impact on that process.

i'm a wonk, sure, i can argue from historical analogy, blather on about the antonine plague or whatnot, and make wildly inaccurate predictions, but i'm more interested in providing emotional support, as best i can, because i know i need a hell of a lot of that right now and i assume other people have similar needs.

I think it's fine in the abstract for people to have opinions that differ from my own, but when they voice those opinions all I hear is that WAH WAH WAH noise Charlie Brown's teacher makes so I dunno maybe tighten up your opinion game a little to include actual words and we'll talk.

i think its ok for other ppl to have the wrong opinion as long as they have the wrong opinion for the right reason.

i should be the person who decides this, obv

dont see any other workable way *shrug*

yeah, its actually going really well, why dyou ask?

My initial response was more in general rather than about here but people having different opinions is good, especially when their opinion changes mine. This happens more than you might think, not so much on faster moving threads perhaps and obviously more likely the more loosely held my own opinion but I'm not sure its true that people aren't hearing or changing perspective (probably rarely in a binary sense, but certainly in a more nuanced sense)

Otoh, the American progressive movement just had a very bad week, and the Dem primary thread has 2200 new replies repeating the same arguments over and over and over. And yet I don't think it dissolved into personal abuse even once? So looked at from another angle, that might be the most impressive space on the internet, no?

― Frederik B, Thursday, 5 March 2020 bookmarkflaglink

You know what else is nice?

stories I read today: Supreme Court ruled border patrol isn’t legally responsible for killing a kid, cops beat the shit out of a guy in brooklyn, alabama executed a person, and someone waved a Nazi flag at a sanders rally. yet the discourse is about mean tweets

— Alex Press (@alexnpress) March 6, 2020

Yeah there’s an awful lot of “obviously I don’t mean all Sanders supporters”...36864 new replies. And of course phrasing your rudeness politely or with sufficient plausible deniability will never be construed as mean

people having different opinions is good, especially when their opinion changes mine. This happens more than you might think

I was tempted to start a 'when's the last time you changed your mind about something'...probably specific to politics. It's not so much having your mind 'changed' tho is it? More being...persuaded or convinced about something you previously were too ignorant about or unaware of to take a solid position on.

I've changed my mind on the way Sanders has been running his campaign a couple of times over the last few months...

I was tempted to start a 'when's the last time you changed your mind about something'...probably specific to politics. It's not so much having your mind 'changed' tho is it? More being...persuaded or convinced about something you previously were too ignorant about or unaware of to take a solid position on.

Mostly yes, I think so, or about something specific, where its clear someone says something and you think oh yeah good point. But in a binary sense of "im going to completely change how i see things" then no thats much rarer and is more likely to be a gradual process taking years

I think the more fundamental differences aren't really that much to do with opinion but the worlds we see. My right wing cousin believes the 'Democrats support open borders', which is demonstrably false but only if you look at it through the lens of literal truth rather than 'underlying' truth. His definition of 'democrats support own borders' is much more flexible and malleable, he doesn't experience things in that way. I don't know what his definition of it is because he won't say, he can't put it into words, nevertheless he knows it to be true and to point out that it isn't is pedantry in his eyes

To put this another way in a contrived sense, if I knock a glass off a window sill but it hasn't hit the ground below, in a literal sense the glass is whole and isn't smashed, but in an underlying way its completely smashed. We're experiencing the world in different ways through different lenses

This has drifted over to brainworm thread territory, but the point is that we don't share a context enough to even have differences of opinion

The 'pre-hearing' thing I think is important too. The reason my cousin can never tell me what I've just said correctly is because he has pre-heard me. I try as much as possible not to factor in what people have said before but base it more on what they are saying right now. To try and un-pre-hear as much as possible. Does it always work, no of course not! Its an approach, which can succeed or fail like any other.

I don't really want to hear statements of opinion in general so much as ppl sharing some thinking. conclusions are meaningless otherwise, only the workings are worthy of respect

not to suggest I don't enjoy meaninglessness, or things that aren't overdetermined

I'm cool with different opinions as long as they're expressed in haiku or koan form (overlap is encouraged).

Hi pomenitul
Romanesque architecture
is overrated

Nice. This is how you do it, people.

What is the sound of one hand fapping?

I missed you pom and so did the guess the city thread

Thanks! I'll be sure to check it out, although I suspect it's not a game I'd be very good at.

Welcome back Pom, missed you as well! You otoh only "missed" the usual US politics freak-out, trolling and crying, so I envy you.

Thew new Vladislav Delay album though, don't miss out on that one! :)

<3

Some friends came to visit us from abroad right before our great leap back across the Atlantic, so playing host took precedence. That said, the drama appears to have been quite juicy even at a retrospective glance.

Will listen to the new VD today or tomorrow. I hope he'll resurrect some of his other monikers as well, especially Uusitalo.

Please let us not call it 'the new VD'

Valentine's Day? Virtual Desktop? Vaginal Delivery?

Ah shit, have I just revealed something unfortunate about my google history?

lol

Anyway, I think we can all agree that different hipinions are always bad.

foh 😂🤣