pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

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not too hot 100?

The use of “Alleged” in this headline feels misplaced; it could be read as implying there is some doubt about the claim’s veracity. I would redo the entire headline... make it about her statement (which is lengthy), or public reappearance, not the assault.

That’s literally how news works though

Whiney OTM, this is an odd thing to complain about

The news is her statement; Pitchfork doesn’t have to evaluate whether it’s true or not (or hedge their bets on the question).

This Variety headline doesn’t follow my final suggestion(...); but see how it simply says “Says”. That seems right to me — she’s saying it, that’s what to report. “Alleged” feels like a weasel word, or something a student journalist throws in b/c they think it belongs.

"alleged" is fine. that's what she's doing, alleging.

Both are fine. You can even write "Duffy accuses X of Y." But "alleged" isn't a weasel word.

If you say so. She hasn’t accused anyone, the statement is purposefully vague.

(anyone specific or identified)

This is, without exaggeration, Reporting 101

p4k has journalistic cred to maintain

xp I’m open to being wrong. If she posted that she had been abused as a child (without saying anything more specific), would “Duffy Posts About Alleged Abuse” be appropriate?

If you posted that your car was stolen, and read “Internet Guy Posts About Alleged Car Theft,” you wouldn’t be like — “hey, why call it an ‘allegation’? I was just telling a story about something that happened; why does its veracity have to be challenged in the headline?”

yeah i think an allegation has to have a target

I mean, journalism in general is supposed to have a skeptical stance and seek to confirm with facts and reporting

or it used to, who knows?

I guess whether or not Pitchfork does journalism is the question

Which craft beer goes best w journalism?

They do say in the piece that they reached out to her reps.

Investigating the story may certainly be appropriate; but my point is that reporting on the initial Instagram post is not the place to express skepticism.

"alleged" is absolutely correct. people having conversations aren't bound by journalistic standards & practices, but journalists should emphatically always report an allegation as an allegation.

So you agree that “Duffy Posts About Alleged Child Abuse” would be appropriate if she mentioned that she had been abused?

... YES

I’m open to being wrong

are you

even for this thread this is such a weird argument

Yes, I’m open to being wrong, but nobody has made an argument beyond just saying that I am wrong.

If you report that someone said something (as Variety did), you’re not vouching that it’s true. And if no one specific is being accused of a crime, you’re not crossing any boundaries by simply reporting that someone said that a crime occurred.

I think the “Duffy Opens Up About Alleged Assault” construction might be part of what is throwing morris - it reads as if the allegation was previously a known thing, and Duffy is now speaking more openly about it. Duffy Returns To Public Life, Alleges Horrific Assault might have not had the same confusing effect

even for this thread this is such a weird argument

this though

If you report that someone said something (as Variety did), you’re not vouching that it’s true. And if no one specific is being accused of a crime, you’re not crossing any boundaries by simply reporting that someone said that a crime occurred.

Yes you are. Reporting can be an ass, and I like to tell my student reporters that if they see a red car they don't need three sources to confirm its color. However, when it comes to crime you're dealing with hearsay and he said/she said. A crime occurs when police issue a crime report or confirm a crime was committed.

In morrisp's defense, surely we can at least acknowledge that the word 'alleged' is a loaded one. Obviously it's a semantic issue (and I agree it's correct if we're gonna be all Strunk & White about it), but in casual conversation, if I asked roommate #1 if roommate #2 has done the dishes as per the chore wheel, and she replies "allegedly," I understand that the word is being deployed in this instance to sarcastically cast a certain amount of doubt about whether or not roommate #2 did in fact do the dishes, or whether he had done the dishes in a way that would now allow us to eat off of them, and I might go into the kitchen to see for myself

Well, sure, but a conversation isn't reporting.

I’m open to being wrong, but nobody has made an argument beyond just saying that I am wrong.

here is how the argument breaks down: legally speaking, until someone has been convicted in a court of law, a media outlet cannot call them a criminal or assert outright that they committed a crime. To do is both factually inaccurate (the definition of being a criminal is having been convicted of a crime) and slanderous, opening the media outlet to legal liability. Therefore, any time a journalist is reporting on possible criminal activity, the charges are referred to as allegations or accusations (which is how they would be referred to in a court of law), until the point they are proven in court.

whether or not what pfork does should be considered journalism is a different point.

But she has not accused anyone of a crime. And Pitchfork is not reporting on a crime — just Duffy’s post, in which the (“alleged”) assault is mentioned in half a sentence, and does not contain enough details to (I would think) even rise to the level of an “allegation.” It’s not a “he said/she said”; it’s a “she glancingly mentions.”

To use sic’s proposed headline —

Duffy Returns To Public Life, Alleges Horrific Assault

— are you saying that if the headline was “Duffy Returns to Public Life, Says She Was Victim of Horrific Assault” (which I like better), journalistic malpractice is being committed?

If she had said that someone specific assaulted her (or even provided enough information that someone could possibly be identified from her post), then I agree reporters would need to be cautious about how they report on it.

for journalists, this is not even a choice you make, it just *is* ... i can see how non-journos might not understand it

Inspired by the now-classic feminist blockbuster Thelma & Louise, the a cappella story-song details a version of Amos’ own violent rape at 21.

Is this sentence bad journalism because it omits 'alleged'?

is that from the news section

Here's a sprinkling of other headlines I found in a quick search, all apparently from legit journalistic sources:

"Pop star Duffy says she withdrew from public spotlight after being..." (Washington Post)
"Singer Duffy says she was..." (ABC Denver
"Singer Duffy says she retreated from the spotlight after being..." (CNN)
"U.K. singer Duffy breaks silence, says she left spotlight after being..." (NBC News)
"Singer Duffy says (...) led to her public retreat" (Minn. Star Tribune)

It's from the "Longform" section, which perhaps doesn't have the same standards as the press release section

as someone who studied journalism and writes longform essays i would encourage you to not confuse them with journalism

morris, I'm sorry but this is a stupid argument

in those other headlines you note the words "Duffy... says" are performing the same function as the term "alleged"

Against Allegedly

Yes, I'm the one arguing that saying "says" is fine/ preferred! And the editors of all those headlines seem to agree.

(xp)

I don't think those other headlines are bad
but I don't think the Pitchfork headline is bad either
every editor has their discretion, but nothing I've seen here is beyond the pale or out of bounds

fcc -- thanx for posting that link... it gets to exactly what I'm talking about.

take it to the "words you never want to see again" thread

I dislike "allegedly" because it's one word too easily removed accidentally from editing whereas X "was charged with negligent homicide for what police say was letting his son run across a busy intersection" is harder.

Look, while we’re all arguing about this, we’re missing the important news that The Men Want You to Pair Their New LP With a High ABV.

https://pitchfork.com/news/watch-tom-steyer-and-juvenile-perform-back-that-azz-up/
I don’t hold it against Pitchfork for reporting on this but I hold it against reality for allowing this to exist

At the risk of bringing up the dead horse for another round of kicking, but I'm not sure why both Grimes and Caribou got 8.2 ratings, though only the former got the BNM tag. Name recognition?