should i give the grateful dead a chance?

Erstwhile ilxor patron sailor has a familial connection to the Dead merch empire dunno if he’s upthread talking about it at all

xp Josh, what does that mean?

tribunal is closed, guilty of assault and capitalism

xp The Dead incorporated in 1976 and, with the band members as the board of directors, became a serious business venture.

How to Truck the Brand: Lessons from the Grateful Dead

xpost It's more a romantic notion than anything else, but as I loosely understand it they were one of the first bands to put a price on and market everything. I could be wrong though.

no way to tell for sure but dead maybe soundtracked more popular kid high school keggers and fraternity events than any other rock band, 1971 - 2001

xp You mean, like, T-shirts?

yes, but more importantly, the idea of a band setting up a corporation specifically to sell (and profit from) said T-shirts

AFAIK, they were among the first to forge a direct relationship w/fans ("DEAD FREAKS UNITE: Who are you? Where are you? How are you?"), and build a robust touring/merch economy separate from record sales -- eventually, even going indie for a while -- which is totally "romantic" & cool in my book. What's wrong with setting up a corporation for that? They had a huge crew of ppl to support.

Would it be cooler if all the checks were personally cashed in Phil's name, or something?

if you don't get Josh's point then idk what to say

"kind of gross" sums it up for me

I don't get it, and I'm not being obtuse. Josh didn't even explain what he meant! Every band "puts a price" on merch and "markets" concert tickets, etc. (and what's wrong with merch, anyway??)

It's gross for a band to seek revenue steams that aren't dependent on checks from Warner Bros.(?)

stop being an apologist for capitalism

Wasn't rock and roll pretty fully corporatized by the time of the Beatles? If anything, I more get the sense that they expanded what could be done within corporatized rock and roll.

xp lol, are you fucking serious?

The music wants to be free, maaaaannnnn...

But wasn't that more or less the Dead's impetus?

If anything, I more get the sense that they expanded what could be done within corporatized rock and roll.

Like Jerry Garcia ties.

yes, they repeatedly drugged people without their knowledge or consent, but let us never forget the greatest evil is capitalism

The music drugs wants to be free, maaaaannnnn...

Like I said, it's more a romantic notion than anything else. Few bands are in it to *lose* money. The Dead if anything deserve credit for calling it what it is.

Fine, just don't call them hyprocrites b/c you had some vague sense that, as hippies or whatever, they *were* in it lose money.

Well, I think at one point they kind of were! Until maybe they realized how much they were losing. (Embezzled by one of their dads?)

The conclusion of that Altamont book I read was that the debacle kind of ended whatever the Dead (and Stones) were, or at least what they wanted to be. But I'm not familiar enough with the Dead to know if they were changed by the events.

i think they were in it to have a good time. no 'rock star' seemed nearly as chill as jerry (which i think is the core of their aspirational fan appeal). dude died at 53 a martyr to hippie hedonism

i mean if we want to talk about the corporatization of the dead yeah that was '75 when all of their dreams crashed and burned due to a number of factors, including yeah embezzlement, that wasn't altamont and for god's sake isn't there another thread or two where we can argue about how capitalism is the root of all evil?

The embezzlement was 1970. Hart's dad disappeared with their money three months after Altamont, fwiw.

I think it's awesome that the Dead has built a thriving merch empire to support their fans' thirst for high-quality recordings of live shows, merch, etc. (even though I rarely engage with any of that personally). I wish every band/artist that I'm into (and, heck, even many I'm not) could be successful on their own terms. I recently signed up to send a few bucks a month to my favorite guitar dude on Patreon, to get behind his future recording & merch efforts... that's what I do as a fan, don't we all? -- support artists we love and hope they can find financial stability or even "success" via what they produce & do.

i think it's awesome the only other american band who has as many great album-closing jams as the dead ("casey jones", "blues for allah", "the weather report suite", "truckin'", "terrapin station", "cosmic charlie") is REM

xpost I think Pearl Jam doing that was super-cool, too. I remember all those shelves of live CDs at Tower Records and thinking, man, I wish every band did this. It's more or less free money for them, and an awesome thing for fans.

Re: Altamont, the whole reason Altamont happened at all was because the Stones were getting shit for high ticket prices on their US tour, and the only reason they were touring America at all was reportedly to refill their empty coffers; the reason the event was moved to Altamont at the last minute was because Jagger wanted to keep a bigger percentage of the film profits, iirc. A lot of folks of course write about Altamont as the fabled Death of the '60s (with actual death the turning point), but it was also when a lot of idealism evaporated in the face of practical money matters and/or greed.

my favorite guitar dude on Patreon

lol this was Hagerty wasn't it

lol I was going to randomly guess James Blackshaw!

kinda weird for capitalist figureheads to hold out so long sampling-wise ("unbroken chain")

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoXFmo50YBI

xxp Yep! #HexHead #(WhatMan)WhoAreYou

apologies for “but have you heard” but I’m wondering if any non-fans would like “the wheel” by jerry garcia band?

https://youtu.be/rYGatU18PMQ

Er, it's pleasant. I'd rather listen to Michael Nesmith though.

The conclusion of that Altamont book I read was that the debacle kind of ended whatever the Dead (and Stones) were, or at least what they wanted to be. But I'm not familiar enough with the Dead to know if they were changed by the events.

― Josh in Chicago, Friday, 21 February 2020 18:04 (one hour ago) link

One of my favorite moments from Gimme Shelter is when someone tells Jerry about the fracas between the Hell's Angels and Jefferson Airplane where Marty Balin gets brained and Jerry's response is a stoned "Bummer", so out of character with the rest of the reactions.

Then they fly off in a helicopter, right?

Then they fly off in a helicopter, right?

― Ticket Tout (morrisp)

they learned that trick from stockhausen

Four helicopters, iirc. That's also when the Grateful Dead invented "Apocalypse Now."

I liked the Amazon doc a lot but I thought Jerry came off terribly in it

everyone has their off days. weir is the zappa of the dead

I liked the Amazon doc a lot but I thought Jerry came off terribly in it

― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Friday, February 21, 2020 12:51 PM (twelve minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

he seemed like a total prick

not remotely a chill guy either

the chills are the dead of new zealand

The Dead C are the Dead of NZ.

huh i dunno if "jerry was a prick" was my takeaway from the doc. though i've read several dead bios so maybe some of the later years stuff wasn't as surprising to me. as far as rock stars go, maybe not such a bad dude.

a broken angel sings from a guitar. in the end there's just a song

Even as a Dead fan I can agree they seem like one of the least desirable bands to actually hang out with.

all of the SF 60s psych bands seem like horrible ppl tbh. Even Fogerty and Sly seemed like, um, difficult people to say the least.