Friend Infected With Right Wing Brain Worms - What to Do?

"I agree with them, but they really aren't going to win anyone over by inconveniencing working people"

Friend update! He has considerably cooled down on the stuff that was worrying me.

I finally revealed to him that I am trans, and although I could tell it was awkward for him, he handled it well. There’s always going to be stuff we don’t see eye-to-eye on but he has proven to be a good and loyal friend where it counts.

Contrast that with the two other supposed friends (both cis women who don’t know each other) who completely cut me off after I came out to them last year. One even told me that she felt my revelation ”invalidated“ her womanhood, which of course really, really fucking hurt to hear. This was in the context of a very long email where my friend regurgitated a bunch of TERF/“gender critical” talking points that she had apparently been absorbing online. Talk about brain worms!

She then stated she was cutting off contact and threatened legal action if I responded. What the fuck?

The other friend was initially polite when I told her, but indicated that she had “reservations” about trans issues and that if I wanted to hear them I should let her know.

Ok, but...how is one supposed to respond to that? I was already in a very vulnerable place after coming out to my family. I was not going to entertain objections to my life choices or identity. But even so, I wasn’t ready to lose a friend just yet. I tried to respond in a diplomatic way but it came out sounding rather rambly and meandering, which she took as me “talking down” to her.

Eventually she revealed that her ex (who was abusive to her) had turned out to be trans after their breakup.
Which...ok, but what was she saying? How does her ex being a piece of shit have any bearing on their or my trans-ness? I’m not them! Of course, it transpired that like my other friend, she had also been absorbing “gender critical”/TERF propaganda from reddit and other places online. In so many words she said that my being trans was an insult to her womanhood and the suffering she had gone through as a woman. From this point on things deteriorated rapidly. She wrote an email indicating that she was cutting off contact to “protect herself” and wished me the best (gee, thanks).

Both of these friend breakups happened within the space of a week. The same week, in fact. It was very strange and upsetting and it kinda ruined me for a while. I think about what happened almost every day and it still stings.

I’m really sorry to hear that lb, you know you will be better off without them in the long run but it still fucking hurts. It’s really fucking out of hand and melting brains everywhere. I’m glad your other friend has accepted you though.

stay strong latebloomer!

My old boss was a super right wing guy (in the abstract) but something never sat right. He was never like that in his actions. It was jarring to me to hear the same old same old dogma (from someone that was clearly bright) and then to see him act in completely the opposite way in the way he stood up for people. I wouldn't say he was brainwormed exactly...it was more like his abstract understanding of the world and his empathic understanding of the world were polar opposites (unlike my RW cousin who doesn't possess empathy at all in an imaginative sense, which I think is one of the preconditions for brainwormery)

Just because someone is wrong in the abstract, doesn't mean the same will be true in reality, just as someone who's right in the abstract can turn out to be made out of paper when it actually matters.

much love to you latebloomer

that's one of the things about coming out as trans that's so hard to explain to people who haven't had that experience, having to be willing to lose basically anything and anyone in your life, at random, for no reason at all. people whose love you have never doubted for a second in your life suddenly reject you, even though acceptance costs them nothing and we risk fucking everything just to be who we are.

i legit just don't fucking get that

They will come up with an interim solution, a kind of halfway house to a vaccine. This will keep the economy functioning until a useable vaccine is ready.

A vaccine for the brain worms, now?

what if the brain worms are the only thing that's protecting them from the corona

I was talking to my friend last night and she said that her two year old son has not had any vaccinations and she's concerned that if a Covid-19 vaccine is produced then the government will force people to take it. She said that she's not an anti-vaxxer but she just didn't want her son to be vaccinated (she was a bit vague on her reasons for this).

I didn't challenge her on this (maybe I should have) because I'm not a parent and I'd imagine that having people who aren't parents telling you how to raise your child must be annoying, and I was worried that being too confrontational could be counter-productive. However I definitely think she should get her son vaccinated for obvious reasons. Should I raise this with her, and if so what's the best way to go about it?

She said that she's not an anti-vaxxer but she just didn't want her son to be vaccinated 

i believe there's almost no chance of trying to argue somebody out of an idiotic belief but depending on the person i guess you could try a "social responsibility" tack.

Especially if the idiotic belief concerns their children.

Is she concerned that about a covid-19 vaccination itself, or that people will be forced to take it?

Should I raise this with her, and if so what's the best way to go about it?

Being confrontational is obviously unlikely to work. In my view its best to work with what you share and build on that, because taking an oppositional stance starts with what you don't share.

So what do you currently share? Some kind of unknowability about everything to do with covid-19 presumably, because no one really knows the lay of the land yet. So your both in the same boat. Involve her in the process of making the decision about whether to take the vaccine when it arrives. Ie don't tell her what to do about covid-19. Ask her what to do about covid-19

(involve her in you own decision about whether to take it, I mean)

That would probably be for the best. We've got a lot in common politically in that we're both lefty liberal types, so I was surprised when she came out with this. And I think she's more concerned about being forced to take the vaccine than the vaccine itself.

I ran into someone like that in a friend’s facebook comments. She said she’s staying home, wearing a mask, etc. but if people wanted to go to events or hold a farmers market, it’s not the government’s place to say no.

The entire “people should be free to do or not do things if they want” mentality is basically the soft marketing version of the individualist society we pretend to have. Is there nothing that’s a societal responsibility?

tbh I’ve thought about just dumping my raw sewage in the gutter in front of some homes. I’m doing what I like over here in a public space!

She said she’s staying home, wearing a mask, etc. but if people wanted to go to events or hold a farmers market, it’s not the government’s place to say no.

The entire “people should be free to do or not do things if they want” mentality is basically the soft marketing version of the individualist society we pretend to have. Is there nothing that’s a societal responsibility?

I'm not taking a particular tack here and it depends what lens you look at this through, but societal responsibility and government enforcement aren't the same thing? Or are they?

In both these cases I can see someone saying "Wait a minute, we trust Boris and Trump now all of a sudden?" and we end up with police inspecting shopping bags and saying we can't do push ups in the park.

Deeper issue here about trust in governments, which is complicated at the best of times

if a vaccine is rushed (i.e. not put through the usual rigor of testing) then i could see myself being hesitant to get it

As far as immunizing your children is concerned my line is that the state should do more to protect the child's individual rights and freedoms. Giving the decision to parents isn't extending freedom of choice, it's treating minors as property.

if a vaccine is rushed (i.e. not put through the usual rigor of testing) then i could see myself being hesitant to get it

I think vaccines are amazing things but this is my starting point too.
I thought she was saying that re her child not having previous vacs either.

As far as immunizing your children is concerned my line is that the state should do more to protect the child's individual rights and freedoms. Giving the decision to parents isn't extending freedom of choice, it's treating minors as property.

― clap for content-providers (Noodle Vague), Sunday, April 26, 2020 9:58 AM bookmarkflaglink

otm

if it makes everyone feel better, it's not even a given there will be a vaccine, since it's a coronavirus

that doesn't make me feel better at all!

sorry, I was being unhelpfully facetious

(waits for this to hit "pvmic")

ive seen a few articles repeating a who announcement that previous infection and recovery from covid 19 does not result in immunity, but none contained commentary on implications for the possibility for vaccines, and i keep thinking, well doesn’t this make a meaningful vaccine impossible? Or are only some people, but not all, immune to it following recovery? In that case, you’d need about 70% of total population vaxed and responsive for some herd effect?

my understanding is...and I'm way out of my depth here...is that a vaccine can still be developed even if there is no acquired immunity to the virus

There is no acquired immunity to tetanus for example, but a vaccine does exist

I'll guinea pig a vaccine right now tbh

especially if it comes with a stipend

hunt3r & neanderthal:

https://www.city-journal.org/covid-19-our-attitude-toward-vaccines

ah, thanks j., that was interesting. i'm still interested on what how immunity from previous disease exposure and vaccine development are related, if it all, and i will post if/when i see anything.

my understanding from the similar reports i saw was that it was more a warning not to think a positive antibody test makes you invulnerable, given that the nature of the immunity relative to the virus (does it have strains, etc.) is not well known yet, plus given that some antibody tests out there right now are not necessarily very reliable.

yeah the false negative issue is insane-- i think two of the serum tests are like 15% false negative? other tests are like 1-2%?

I was talking to my friend last night and she said that her two year old son has not had any vaccinations and she's concerned that if a Covid-19 vaccine is produced then the government will force people to take it. She said that she's not an anti-vaxxer but she just didn't want her son to be vaccinated (she was a bit vague on her reasons for this).

I didn't challenge her on this (maybe I should have) because I'm not a parent and I'd imagine that having people who aren't parents telling you how to raise your child must be annoying, and I was worried that being too confrontational could be counter-productive. However I definitely think she should get her son vaccinated for obvious reasons. Should I raise this with her, and if so what's the best way to go about it?

― paolo, Sunday, April 26, 2020 3:54 AM (yesterday)

I suggest screaming at her, that's what I'd do

let loose with a big old "what the absolute fuck"

also don't hang out with them again, you might catch measles

Yeah, I don't know that I can deal with anti-vax folks in a measured way

she's not anti-vax! she just is against giving vaccines

Hah I've been thinking about this conversation too. I have a housemate that does not believe in Coronavirus!

I do not believe in COVID-19
By
Dr Seuss

And he had a friend over, breaching lockdown. Then this other fella has been going round to people's houses to have sex with them

These guys are so all round awful I'm just stuck really. Asking guy 1 not to breach lockdown resulted in him shouting 10 paragraphs of denialism at me

Ugh that’s awful cardamon

ffs yeah

Fucking hell.

It's like, you know what? The one who goes out shagging most likely will not catch Coronavirus and pass it on to the rest of us in the house. The worst case in that sense probably won't happen. It's the sheer lack of caring though, and from the denier, it is like talking into the abyss.

So I sit here figuring out if there's a way to say hey mate, you know how you've been kicked out by your wife and banned from seeing your kid, because of your booze n scratch cards habit, yeah? And that's why you've ended up moving in here. Well that's quite the situation and I can see how the weirdness of the lockdown isn't helping + that you would be tempted by these booty calls arranged online. But could you not?

'Please do not go and sit in your dealer's car to pick up weed'

My neighbor has 100% been ignoring social distancing when meeting his weed dealer. But he’s also an essential worker who gets up ridiculously early in the morning to go work at the water utility so 🤷‍♂️

Paolo's friend seems completely reachable to me.

Cardamons doesn't even seem like brainworms, just a half-assed cover for not giving af. Removing the 'brainworm' probably not even that hard, but then he'll just continue without the pretence of an excuse or cover