Morrissey is a racist

xpost yeah it was a rumour I read, something about not wanting his daughter dating outside her race. def not for sure confirmed but...I dunno think about it... dude his age and background.... really into metal and military history, I could see it

Most of us have beloved artists who did heinous shit and we haven't been able to divorce ourselves from them - Iggy and Bowie, child molesters; domestic assault up and down the line; Tupac, sexual assault; dancehall/reggae homophobia and sexism. Where we're capable of drawing the line ends up being pretty irrational.

thanks for someone finally bringing up the Tupac sexual assault. kinda cringed when I saw some people who were bringing up Kobe's rape on the date of his death and saying "nobody should mourn this dude" that are also the "Tupac RIP we miss you" crew. he was convicted, too!

(not that i'm saying the comments about the rape are off limits for Kobe, but have some consistency)

Sounds like you’re posting from Bizarro world w/r/t Kobe. I assume you’re aware that of the repercussions faced by a few (female) journalists who brought up the Kobe rape allegation after his death.

of course I'm aware of that, I have the internet, it's gross and I hate it. I'm just saying it shouldn't be inherently off limits to say "ok, I know we're sad, but let's not forget this happened". I however have long wondered why people I know that are still rosy about Tupac who turned the sideeye to Kobe when he passed.

not decrying people for not bringing it up at all.

I hear you

The question this morning (US time) was why he is allegedly more acceptable in the US than UK.

Black people started major efforts to cancel Morrissey in the UK in 1992 and it didn't take until, like, late 2018. His tour in America last year did loads of cut-price tickets because sales were low. Him being booked on one 1980s nostalgia concert in one city doesn't say anything about either country's moral centre.

this is probably a good place for Morrissey's Green Book theme song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_96bgvIDlM

Morrissey's Green Book theme song

lmao how am I only learning about this now, perfect

and all four smiths albums are important if you care about the development of indie music or even british culture more broadly. this is like canceling shakespeare for being sexist or something

Not important in the development of 'British culture' and not like cancelling Shakepeare.

fucking hell, haven't read so much maximum wrongness in one sentence on ilm for years.

oh lol just scrolled up to find the perpetrator of that uttermost claptrap and I'm not entirely shocked!

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/cd/Morrissey_Autobiography_cover.jpg/220px-Morrissey_Autobiography_cover.jpg

I'd be interested to see which Elizabethan writer it would be like cancelling if you were to give a summary dismissal to other shit British indie-rock bands. Maybe Ned's Atomic Dustbin for C Marlowe? jesus can't even name another Elizabethan writer without going to wiki, but shamefully my mind is like a skip full of the names of shit British indie bands!

I once saw a rousing production of Edward II at sheffield crucible starring Fiennes the younger, that was better than any indie rock shite!

Thinking about this this morning and for me the discussion above isn't so much about Morrissey or the "ethics of cancel cultures" or even the art/artist separation (which christ knows we've done to death) but more the culture clash with a certain group of people who are mainly in the USA, let's call them the Freeze Peach Posse - these are youngish angry men who identify as libertarian and view absolutely everything as an issue of free speech. We have plenty of awful people in the UK, but they seem to be of a different (not better) sort. I mainly know the FPP from their relentless commenting on my US friends Facebook posts, every American I know on there seems to have at least a couple of friends or relatives like this. The presence and tolerance of these people seems to lead to an expectation that artists (particularly white male musicians) are likely to be "free thinkers" who are going to come out with all kinds of outrageous things, but "hey, that's all part of being a rock star, I'm here for the music," etc. But this is bullshit, he is putting out this stuff and feels emboldened to do so, buying a ticket to his show let's him know that you are on-board with this stuff and encourages him to do it more.

Like, you guys who are proud that he wouldn’t headline a festival in the UK anymore… What’s your excuse for 1986 to whenever?

― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:28 (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i', mot going to link it for like a fourth time, that seems cheeky, but (as a writer who was "there" in 1986) i did actually wrestle with this at some length in my patreon/freaky trigger piece: i think there were institutional reasons it didn't land with permanence in the 80s which go beyond "everyone is as racist as everyone else, get over yrselves" -- a big deal was immediately made of it in the uk music press in 1986

"i', mot" = "i'm not"

i mean my explanation could be wrong! but the effort has been made

Yeah the NME famously covered his Finsbury Park gig with the Union Jack in it critically(92?), and were subsequently proven correct in doubt so.

that's one of the things I was thinking of re Black people started major efforts to cancel Morrissey in the UK in 1992, as well as Cornershop doing a photo shoot burning pictures of Morrissey and talking about how offensive his lyrics were.

(sub "brown" where appropriate - De1e Fade1e was the NME writer.)

Like, you guys who are proud that he wouldn’t headline a festival in the UK anymore… What’s your excuse for 1986 to whenever?
― Mocha Sauce (morrisp), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:28 (six hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

i', mot going to link it for like a fourth time, that seems cheeky, but (as a writer who was "there" in 1986) i did actually wrestle with this at some length in my patreon/freaky trigger piece: i think there were institutional reasons it didn't land with permanence in the 80s which go beyond "everyone is as racist as everyone else, get over yrselves" -- a big deal was immediately made of it in the uk music press in 1986

― mark s, Thursday, February 13, 2020 4:07 AM (four hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

just want to say that this is a great piece and everyone who's interested enough in this to post in this thread should read it

I'll link to it again so mark s doesn't have to

https://www.patreon.com/posts/other-jacksons-18720007

Eh...despite Morrissey’s sincere attempts to fuck it up by association since, the Smiths’ rep is still a million miles away from the late 80s/early 90s UK indie herd

Not quite on a par with Shakespeare though. His sister maybe.

sounds just as bard as all the other indie shite to me!

The smiths’ best songs rule, come on

I went from being a slight Smiths fan over time, to loving them a couple of years ago, to being unable to stomach them anymore when I read Mark's article. I mean fuck Morissey sideways.

This was on a past revive, not just now.

Marr does a credible job singing the good Smiths song live so you can enjoy them without direct Morrissey stink, at least

i'll read mark's article

I imagine he never told Mozza that "How Soon Is Now" was inspired by Hamilton Bohannon's "Disco Stomp" either.

― High profile Tom D (Tom D.), Wednesday, 12 February 2020 bookmarkflaglink

Lol, amazing

See this article is doing the rounds on Twitter again

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-42050512

https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4634-stop-me-if-you-think-you-ve-heard-this-one-before-a-study-in-the-politics-and-aesthetics-of-english-misery

Owen Hatherley on Morrissey as paragon of English boomer miserabilism

i've seen a couple of attempts to rehabilitate Morrissey this year. one asks oneself why.

this is a very good piece

It's OK, feels like he wasn't entirely convinced by the conclusions he's drawn and crammed them into a little paragraph at the end though.

i think he understands the essence of morrissey, i guess borrowed from simon reynnolds, that morrissey is really longing for the "lost limits" of a vanished social order, even as he tries to make it seem like he's railing against them. these are odes to repression. that's why the music is so distinctive, but it also means his ukip sympathies shouldn't be a surprise.

a lot of people sussed this a long time ago treesh, which is why i think the only thinkpiece worth anything about Morrissey now is "fuck this racist"

ppl sussed everything thousands of years ago yet here we are

lol truth

A minor quibble maybe, but why did he chose to single out Lulu alongside Joe Meek and Billy Fury 'rather than psychedelia or soul'? Her first hit was a Isley Brothers song! Shouldn't it have been Helen Shapiro or someone?

Alma Cogan?

hackney massive reprazent

let's assume he's limited by the extent of his own record collection

(alma is whitechapel, helen is hackney)

no suck up but mark your history of Morrissey is gloriously correct

v mildly peeved owen doesn't cite it since i *know* he knows it, all my attempts to turn ancient weak-tea beef w.simon r into MASSIVE CLOUT are doomed to fail

no suck up taken

I do think the idea of generational nostalgia for misery is p interesting, though I agree with Tom that it could be developed more strongly.