yeah there's also the fact that having kid(s) would have been entirely economically unfeasible until the very end of my/our spawning period
― mookieproof, Thursday, 13 February 2020 01:35 (four years ago) link
47, married for 17 years, no kids, not having any.
Not sure we ever *made* a decision. I'm pretty passive and my wife never had a strong biological drive for children. In fact, pregnancy invokes some serious body horror feelings with her. We never got beyond general discussions.
Tbrr, I have a bunch of unresolved issues relating to my upbringing and felt like not visiting that shit on kids. At least that is the justification I use for the "decision." I just didn't feel like I would be a great parent.
These days I do feel slightly regretful at particular moments, but these are very passing thoughts based mostly around anxiety of loneliness in old age. But that ain't a great reason to have kids, either.
On the other hand, my wife and I are doing well financially, travel, are about ready to pay off our house, etc., none of which would have happened with kids.
― We're jumping on the road with @Nickelback this summer! (PBKR), Thursday, 13 February 2020 01:42 (four years ago) link
people who do not love or care for their own offspring are even less likely to love or care for any other children under any circumstances, so the problem is not primarily located in the imposition of the parental custody upon the child, but in the shortcoming of parent qua parent. society does recognize the existence of failed parenting, and the need for other arrangements for the kids, but the system for this is chronically under-resourced.
all children should be granted a guardian ad litem from birth and the right to emancipation starting around age 5
this may vent your spleen, but apart from that I hope you know it is pure nonsense
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 13 February 2020 01:44 (four years ago) link
idk anarchism for children!
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 13 February 2020 01:45 (four years ago) link
I would love to raise 1/16th or so of a child
i am sure we could set up some meetings with some choice private equity funds to get this done.
― Yerac, Thursday, 13 February 2020 01:47 (four years ago) link
lol
haven't seen adoption mentioned here. my two best friends were adopted, as well as my god daughter. I don’t think people need for a child to be genetically theirs to experience parental love
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 01:52 (four years ago) link
my parents are such dicks. I once brought up possibly being more willing to adopt older kids than having a baby of my own and they were so against it because of whatever stigma they have in their minds of not raising your own pure baby from scratch.
― Yerac, Thursday, 13 February 2020 01:56 (four years ago) link
I don’t think people need for a child to be genetically theirs to experience parental love
as for loving an adopted kid, the love part doesn't need any genetic component. but the genetic link is actually kind of useful in its own way, in that many personality traits tend to run in families, at least as much as physical genetic dispositions do, so the chances are that you will recognize how your child is developing more easily, whether it's seeing a bit of yourself or some trait of a parent, grandparent or sibling. it's not entirely necessary, but it does help ease the child into the family.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:04 (four years ago) link
I'm not sure I believe that the genetic link means much tbh. I don't have children of my own, and I didn't understand parental love until my god daughter was born (she was adopted from birth). But now I feel like I really get it, and it has nothing to do with a genetic relationship, for her parents or for me
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:11 (four years ago) link
many many things i don't get about having kids, but near the top is naming them You Jr. or having their names all start with K or whatever
when i was little i knew a pair of fraternal twins, both boys, one of whom got the Jr. while the other was instantly branded second-best
― mookieproof, Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:26 (four years ago) link
There are many circumstantial reasons my being a parent is unlikely to ever happen, but a big one is that for most parents I know, considerations often seem to shrink (quite understandably) down to "fuck you we got ours", consciously or not. Also the notion that making more life is the highest achievement in / "point of" life drives me up the wall.
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:29 (four years ago) link
Doing things for your kid(s), instead of for yourself, does feel like the most important stuff you could ever do, though. I certainly understand how that might sound pretty dumb to non-parents.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:44 (four years ago) link
having a kid is unethical, to the kid, for making it exist without consent*, i can give a pascal's-wager style argument to prove this but the margins of this post are too small to contain it
*unless you're religious or quasi-religious and have some kind of sophisticated understanding of the repayment of intergenerational existential debt, which, good luck with that
― j., Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:47 (four years ago) link
hence "quite understandably" - I don't blame them. in general I treat parenthood like a particularly effective and widespread cult, one whose benefits can only be properly understood by its membership.
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:50 (four years ago) link
This month my daughter is turning 9, and due to various considerations and circumstances, she’s gonna get her first ever non-hand-me-down device (my old, loveworn iPad mini no longer holds a charge) and her first pet that’s hers (our cat passed last month, cancer) and these seem like such significant milestones to me, whereas in the absence of her, they would be quotidian events (a trip to the Apple Store, a trip to the humane shelter).
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:52 (four years ago) link
^^^ El Tomboto's posts
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:55 (four years ago) link
So are children for being special to you or for being their own person
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:56 (four years ago) link
oh, this totally makes sense!
― mookieproof, Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:57 (four years ago) link
having a kid is unethical
ethics are a construct designed to improve life within a human society. when ethical constructs are pushed in the direction of absolutes, the results are always a reductio ad absurdum.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:57 (four years ago) link
hence my asterisk
― j., Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:58 (four years ago) link
my parents are both good-hearted ppl but both deeply dysfunctional, terribly insecure and immature emotionally, and i've often though "wtf were they thinking, having kids". and i've often resented being born, as i suffer the terrible, endless psychic pain that follows having inherited these traits (not genetically, but by nurture/observation)
― greta van thunberger fleetwig (rip van wanko), Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:59 (four years ago) link
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Wednesday, February 12, 2020 9:56 PM (six seconds ago) bookmarkflaglink
why are you acting like people acknowledging that their children add meaning to their lives is a gotcha
― call all destroyer, Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:59 (four years ago) link
I love my kids unreservedly and have never regretted any aspect of parenthood, but I want to say that I respect and understand the reasons given here by people choosing not to have children. Specifically I would never feel threatened by someone making that choice, or think less of them either.
― an incoherent crustacean (MatthewK), Thursday, 13 February 2020 02:59 (four years ago) link
xp because ppl say it without acknowledging who pays for the meaning
― j., Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:01 (four years ago) link
biggest breakthrough we've had here is discovering, after 13 years, what topic can *finally* make silby act like a jerk
― mookieproof, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:05 (four years ago) link
I’ve done it several times!!
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:06 (four years ago) link
silby's comments are fine
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:07 (four years ago) link
i kind of get what silby is saying though. Like the people who only do nice things for other people because it makes themselves feel good and it's a form of impression management.
I hate this part of asian culture because there is so much expectation and duty placed on the child to give back monetarily, in later caretaking and in success as an entitlement of their parents. It's so fucked up.
― Yerac, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:09 (four years ago) link
granted i have to quell the urge to nurture other people and place them first to my own detriment because that shit was ingrained in me and I hate it.
― Yerac, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:10 (four years ago) link
hadn't thought about the idea of 'impression management' before, makes sense
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:15 (four years ago) link
"But better off than both of them is the one who has never existed, who has never seen the evil activity that is done under the sun."
Ecclesiastes, getting down and dirty with it. But then, the Essenes and early Christians were all dead set against procreation. Jesus seems to have thrown in with that idea, too, but less explicitly than Ecclesiastes. Sophocles was known to have said something along those lines, too. The Catholics and Mormons have other ideas, obviously. You pays yer nickel and makes yer choice.
― A is for (Aimless), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:15 (four years ago) link
Everyone deserves to have parent(s) who love them more than all others, of course it's fair.
This is beautiful logic and a beautiful sentiment
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:22 (four years ago) link
xp i don't know that it would be better (to anyone) for anyone not to have existed, but it is most definitely the case that in the long run one person does the procreating, and the procreated does the existing, which is kind of dicey risk-assumption-wise.
― j., Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:24 (four years ago) link
Don't want kids, but would love to be an uncle. Unfortunately both my sisters didn't want kids either, and they're in their mid to late 40s. They have almost no maternal instinct. Now at least. Like my cats are cute as fuck and they just aren't enamored by them in the least (not equating kids to cats, but pets cuteness is tied into parenting instinct).
Totally feeling Tom's post about imbuing meaning to otherwise meaningless events. I do sometimes think it'd be so cool to mold a human from scratch and see the world through fresh eyes. But then I'll spend a day with my bff and his 3 young boys and I'm like yeah no, fuuuuuuuuuuuck that.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:29 (four years ago) link
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:30 (four years ago) link
His kids LOVE me. Partially cause I'm only around once or twice a year, and partially because our other best friend is a very cold, detached person who hates kids (though he is nice enough to the boys and shows affection in certain ways eg buying them stuff). But partially cause I do enjoy being around kids in short bursts and have no qualms with being goofy af with them.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:32 (four years ago) link
I'm very happy with how my life is going. I enjoy my freedom. Why would I want to change it completely at this point. Compromising my freedom to accommodate my girlfriend's wants and needs is plenty for me and my selfishness.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:35 (four years ago) link
Btw very interesting to read everyone's perspectives here
Matthew K's comment that everyone deserves to have parents who love them more than all others is so right imo
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:38 (four years ago) link
And my parents esp my mom are fucking saints. Never an iota of pressure from them on myself or my sisters about "so when are we gonna get some grandchildren??". They're great parents all around and I have zero complaints about my childhood. Which makes it bizarre that none of the 3 of us "kids" want kids of our own!
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:38 (four years ago) link
My sister has a kid and will likely have more; it would be cool to be a real uncle and influence them and whatnot but they're country people through and through thanks to my brother in law. Oh well.
― bold caucasian eroticism (Simon H.), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:41 (four years ago) link
To j’s thought experiment in ethics, I’d like to see the science on what nonexistent people would be most likely to choose, if they existed and had a choiceI mean we’ve all had to exist, by giving her life I’ve done nothing to my daughter that hasn’t been done to every other living thingI’m sure if we go down this rabbit hole enough we’ll come out as vomit
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:51 (four years ago) link
I basically share j.'s view
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:52 (four years ago) link
It truly is a gift of life. If one doesn't want it, there are 6 million ways to return it.
― A True White Kid that can Jump (Granny Dainger), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:56 (four years ago) link
no see I don't want to die, that's the whole point
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:56 (four years ago) link
if I were never born I wouldn't have to be here, not wanting to die
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:57 (four years ago) link
except for when I do want to die, which is hardly preferable!
― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Thursday, 13 February 2020 03:59 (four years ago) link
I worry about how the next generation in my family will fare
― Dan S, Thursday, 13 February 2020 04:00 (four years ago) link
I think it’s insulting to be told that I’m either unethical or quasi-religious with no room for argument. Especially when the razor is “well, did your babby ask to be existed” - just call me a breeder and fuck off, I’ll try to not bother you any more than necessary.
― El Tomboto, Thursday, 13 February 2020 04:00 (four years ago) link
i was a demon kid until at least 7
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 20:42 (two years ago) link
I'd imagine only the luckiest parents face their greatest challenges in the soiled diapers and crying years.
very true but I mean if it's your first one there are definitely some thoughts at first of "I don't know if this is for me"...by 3 or 4 they're such a part of your life that you can't imagine being without them even when they irritate the shit out of you. I've definitely had those "it might not have been a good idea to bring kids into this world"/"I'm not sure I'm meant to be a parent" thoughts but if anything happened to them I'd probably never recover
― frogbs, Tuesday, 29 June 2021 20:42 (two years ago) link
Agreed, the absolute worst thing about being a parent ime is the constant awareness that something bad might happen to them. It subsides to background noise over time but never goes away.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 20:59 (two years ago) link
Casper made up a genuinely awesome joke the other day. Not sure he understood the mechanism in an intellectual level but he nailed it. Knock knock?Who’s there?AmandaAmanda who?A MandalorianCasper is three and technically still has cancer, though it’s been in remission thanks to targeted gene inhibiting drugs since he was about 9 months old. He loves Iron Man and eating garden peas straight out of the pod. Form babby. What’s the worst that can happen?
― Hey Bob (Scik Mouthy), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 21:30 (two years ago) link
that's a great one! hope he continues to see improving health, helluva card to be dealt at such a young age :(
― cancel culture club (Neanderthal), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 21:40 (two years ago) link
very high quality stuff from Casper
― butyrate humbucker bobbins (Sufjan Grafton), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 21:53 (two years ago) link
<3 Casper
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Tuesday, 29 June 2021 22:01 (two years ago) link
I have a friend whose mom told him she would have aborted him if it had been legal at the time, which I don't think did wonders for his self-esteem, so, yeah.
From when I was very little, my mom was very vocal in her opinion that "having children is the stupidest thing you can do in your life." As I got older, the phrasing changed to "I hope you don't do anything stupid like get married and have kids and then finally to "I'm so glad you didn't waste your life by getting married and having children." (note: this was after I *was* married, but my marriage only lasted 14 months). Neither my brother or sister had children (or any kind of relationship where a family would be likely) so this branch of the family is closed permanently.
So yeah: that talk is great for your self-esteem and personality. Thanks mom: you saved me from a life of emotional attachment and self-sacrifice but I did eventually find a decent therapist because of it.
I don't believe there's a absolute right or wrong answer to the thread title's question. It used to be that whenever I was asked about having children, I'd trot out the usual answers about overpopulation, inequality, and declining resources but I realized that I was fronting. I don't want children because I don't want the emotional competition from bringing a needy stranger into my house. I have no concept on how to be reassuring to an adult and yet I'm expected to do that for a child?
― Elvis Telecom, Sunday, 4 July 2021 00:37 (two years ago) link
For me, the major phenomenological change in becoming a parent was how fast my own concerns just... melted away.
Like, in an instant, I (myself) went from being my top priority to sixteenth or seventeenth on the list. The things I thought were important simply didn't seem all that important anymore. In a way this was refreshing. ymmv of course.
― trial by wombat (Ye Mad Puffin), Sunday, 4 July 2021 02:54 (two years ago) link
no one who has & is raising babby will tell you out loud that having babby was a decision that they regret, even though there are babby-formers who must certainly feel that way
Reddit has had several threads where these people speak up. They're certainly there, though the reasons for regret vary a lot
― Vinnie, Sunday, 4 July 2021 03:06 (two years ago) link
"my son joined an indie rock band"
― not up to Aerosmith standards (Neanderthal), Sunday, 4 July 2021 03:59 (two years ago) link
no one 'has anything against' only children, C or D? maybe you won't either
― mookieproof, Sunday, 4 July 2021 04:07 (two years ago) link