Morrissey is a racist

The Smiths are great. You don’t need to wholly identify with the songs or the person singing them to enjoy the band. And the themes of loneliness and despair—especially his trademark twist of solipsism, which often comes with some self-aware/deprecating humor—are universal and that’s why he has so many Latino fans.

In the sense that the songs speak to everyone, they actually are working against Morrissey’s own perspective that national identity is what’s important (via Derridean analysis)

Hm, I love the Smiths, and have no problem with still listening to them, but they pretty obv don't speak to everyone. At least outside the UK, they were always a cult phenomenon. Anglophilia has at least something to do with some part of the cult of people who are listening to songs about dropping one's trousers to the Queen or hopes rising on the Grasmere. So I could see it making a difference to how one conceives of the emphasis on British identity in the lyrics.

Incidentally, I think my favourite defence of "Bengali" on the old alt.music.smiths Usenet group was that Morrissey's racism was just a subset of his overall misanthropy.

Some Bugbears Are Bigger Than Others

If you acknowledge that he's a heinous ass and like his music anyway, that's fine – otherwise I wouldn't be into metal. If you've gotten wind of his statements from across the pond but don't think they're that big a deal because there's a hierarchy of racisms and calling the Chinese 'a subspecies' is mid-tier at best because that's just how America rolls, I don't know what to say. (I'm not accusing anyone of doing this itt btw.)

I never met a Bengali so why I should I get offended on their behalf?

separate thing but i mean a lot of people were apparently somehow unaware that R. Kelly was extremely creepy until the past several years, even though that was something that was actually reported on here. people just don't pay attention to the news or the history of musicians' creepy behavior and dumb statements.

R. Kelly's perviness is all over his music. Morrissey's racism bursts through into his music on occasion, but it's not often the focus.

Ime, a lot of people had no idea what the word "Bengali" meant, even though there's a good chance they had met some around here.

I'm gonna get back on my hobby horse and say I noticed all of this just by listening to his lyrics immediately after he went solo

as a person, he should be strongly criticized for his racism. and it's part of the story of the songs and helps put them in context. i just feel like there is a stigma attached to the music now that isn't deserved -- the work is separate

Meanwhile, I can't listen to "Panic" anymore

I'm aware of one Morrissey superfan here in the U.S. (well, I think she recently moved to the UK) who ended up renouncing her fandom in the past few years, after a long period of being conflicted, etc. (this is based on social media and podcast stuff).

can we please talk about buster bloodvessel some more? he’s not racist is he?

Lip up fashy

lol

Adolf skitler

Sorry I mean skadolf skibbiditler

but generally no one pays attention to Morrissey nor is he reported on

In the U.K., their kids get to read it in their magazines, but we don't have those.

If you haven't read ska weekly then you should really pick it now

> people just don't pay attention to the news or the history of musicians' creepy behavior and dumb statements.

OTM, they don't even do it for far more famous figures. So depressing whenever I encounter this firsthand.

Manor House's finest sons Bad Manners have no known affiliations with far-right terror groups along the lines of UKIP etc, but I have a sneaking suspicion Mr Bloodvessel may have voted for Brexit.

let's go outside, guys.

Meanwhile, I can't listen to "Panic" anymore

Why? Isn't it about their reaction to a shitty Wham song being played after hearing about Chernobyl? Or is there a darker meaning?

Let's go outside!

https://youtu.be/gwZAYdHcDtU

xp. anti-greek racism

The darker meaning of "Panic" is that be hates music by black people

^^^ combine this with the "Hang the DJ" play-out for extra horror

My memory is that Morrissey dropped 'All reggae is vile' in an interview round about the time of Panic

good grief! What on earth is blatantly dissing club culture got to do with a fucking nuclear reactor meltdown in Ukraine?

going to regret posting this but while morrissey is obviously massively racist and divining racism in his lyrics is quite a fruitful pursuit in general, the context of mid 80s britain discotheques (in carlisle, dundee, humberside) is not one that would have been had much to do with black people or black music

it's pasty white men in cheap suits and bad cologne dancing to spandau ballet and then having a fight and a kebab on the way home

i think he might have even came out with the reggae is vile (i think he also called reggae racist) in the context of criticism that panic was racist

which proves he is a huge racist obviously

It was quoted upthread:

Yeah no I made this point earlier and I don’t think an American needs to know anything about British politics to think that

- calling Chinese people “a subspecies”
- repeatedly moaning about the UK “losing its culture”/ too many foreigns not speaking English on the street
- “Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... There is a line when defense of one's race becomes an attack on another race and, because of black history and oppression, we realise quite clearly that there has to be a very strong defence. But I think it becomes very extreme sometimes."
"But, ultimately, I don't have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 - Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they're vile in the extreme. In essence this music doesn't say anything whatsoever."

Any of these or similar themes are not immediately understood by an American for what they are? That’s not niche. Not knowing about it, ok, but if you know and think it’s “inside baseball” idkYeah no I made this point earlier and I don’t think an American needs to know anything about British politics to think that

- calling Chinese people “a subspecies”
- repeatedly moaning about the UK “losing its culture”/ too many foreigns not speaking English on the street
- “Reggae, for example, is to me the most racist music in the entire world. It's an absolute total glorification of black supremacy... There is a line when defense of one's race becomes an attack on another race and, because of black history and oppression, we realise quite clearly that there has to be a very strong defence. But I think it becomes very extreme sometimes."
"But, ultimately, I don't have very cast iron opinions on black music other than black modern music which I detest. I detest Stevie Wonder. I think Diana Ross is awful. I hate all those records in the Top 40 - Janet Jackson, Whitney Houston. I think they're vile in the extreme. In essence this music doesn't say anything whatsoever."

Any of these or similar themes are not immediately understood by an American for what they are? That’s not niche. Not knowing about it, ok, but if you know and think it’s “inside baseball” idk

I do have work I'm supposed to do so I am going to try to not get sucked into this vortex but authorial intent only goes so far when the author spends several decades showing people all the ways in which he is a racist dickbag

the context of mid 80s britain discotheques (in carlisle, dundee, humberside) is not one that would have been had much to do with black people or black music

I can't speak for some of them places in that song (and maybe neither can that cunt Mozza!), but in his own native city of birth, Manchester and even indeed the shitty little northern town I grew up in across the Pennines from that region, they are both areas with huge afro-Caribbean and Asian communities. Not places where the old discotheques were just full of white people.

I had heard about so many of these incidents, but somehow I hadn't heard about the "reggae is racist" one yet. What an absolute shitbag.

Also, jeez Moz, weird to see what all the specific "Top 40" acts you name have in common.

acc.freaky trigger commenter billy smart (ilxor by another name? ppssibly!) "reggae is vile" is from 1985

(i.e. two years before "panic" and unprompted by any accusation, tho in a sense prompted by being asked which reggae act he liked)

SOUL ACT: Nico

racist game recognize racist game

going to regret posting this but while morrissey is obviously massively racist and divining racism in his lyrics is quite a fruitful pursuit in general, the context of mid 80s britain discotheques (in carlisle, dundee, humberside) is not one that would have been had much to do with black people or black music

it's pasty white men in cheap suits and bad cologne dancing to spandau ballet and then having a fight and a kebab on the way home

agree that it's more "ugh, vulgar and tacky contemporary normie brit-culture" than "ugh, black people culture" per se, but it gets murky pretty quick when that vulgar modern world is counterpointed to his idealised 50s/early 60s B&W film (emphasis on the W) version of Britain, it's easy to trac a through line from that to the 'britain isn't really british anymore because of too much immigration' stuff he's come out with more recently

I can believe what jim said but it's "the music they constantly play says nothing to me about my life", not "the song he played has nothing to do woth dying kids" or something. That Chernobyl explanation always seemed far-fetched to me. 7xp

*with

acc.freaky trigger commenter billy smart (ilxor by another name? ppssibly!) "reggae is vile" is from 1985

(i.e. two years before "panic" and unprompted by any accusation, tho in a sense prompted by being asked which reggae act he liked)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panic_(The_Smiths_song)#Release_and_reception

Morrissey denied the accusation, and in a September 1986 Melody Maker interview with Frank Owen decried Owen's suggestion that he was leading a "black pop conspiracy". Additional criticism was sparked by the same interview, wherein Morrissey was quoted naming reggae as "the most racist music in the entire world."[13] Marr, in particular, was incensed by the article and in a 1987 NME interview threatened to "kick the living shit" out of the writer if he met him, such was his anger at the article's slant. He also countered that "disco music" could not be simply equated with "black music", saying, "To those who took offence at the 'burn down the disco' line [...] I'd say please show me the black members of New Order!"[14]

xps. good point, soref

i'll get me coat

Also from the Owen piece:

You seem to be saying that you believe that there is some sort of black pop conspiracy being organised to keep white indie groups down.

“Yes, I really do.” Morrissey goes on

Funny how the memory plays tricks! thanks for the correction, mark s

Paolo Hewitt comes out well from that wikipedia entry, I mean that without irony.

Although after hearing about Peart and the NME, idk if I should trust the author.xp

I think the Smiths were the recipients of considerably more good will in the NME than Rush. I doubt they ever got a bad review.

I don't think mark's correction is correct, though? For one thing, "Panic" came out in 86 and the Wikipedia article reference the reggae comment (although at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if Moz said it multiple times)

He also countered that "disco music" could not be simply equated with "black music", saying, "To those who took offence at the 'burn down the disco' line [...] I'd say please show me the black members of New Order

oooh he showed him!

lol!

if a double decker bus
crashes into us
to die by Moz's side
I'll be happy to know that he's died

would love to pivot to the racist/right-wing underpinnings of Joy Division/New Order...