US Politics, February 2020. They want to kill your cows.

I think it's safe to say that President Trump has learned his lesson and has been chastened and dare I say humbled by the experience of his impeachment. It's mourning in America!

I can't wait for the vigorous head shaking and finger wagging when he calls off the election.

So maybe the right response for this is for me to just step away from the thread and not read it. Twitter too. But -- I really really don't want people to laugh hollowly and say "well I guess that's it for democracy, election's gonna get cancelled amidst modest harumphs of disapproval from elected officials and journalists," and the reason I don't want people to do that is it makes me feel like shit and it makes me feel like there's no point and it makes me feel like giving up, which is not, I know, anyone's intention, but fuck, I am not ready to give up and I want to help other people not give up and I want other people to help me not give up. THE FUCKERS WHO ARE DOING THIS WANT US TO FEEL LIKE THERE'S NO POINT AND THEY WANT US TO GIVE UP. That is all.

cosign this sentiment about all the pointless black comedy nihilism on these threads

as Alfred and DJP have repeatedly pointed out in these threads, performative despair is white privilege in action

I've done it in the past, and now regret it

idk if anyone linked this earlier, but greg sargent of wapo had a good article about how this type of despair is exactly what trump is counting on: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/02/11/trumps-latest-rally-stunts-are-designed-get-you-surrender/

performative despair is white privilege in action

say it louder for the people in the back

eephus! completely and utterly otm

I mean despair is one thing, but this "yuck yuck, all hail Emperor Trump guys, hope you like reprogramming" bullshit Letterman routine that keeps popping up on here keeps pissing me off more and more.

like it isn't even based in reality. if it were that easy to topple an election, he'd have done it during the mid-terms. There are legitimate things that he could do to undermine the election that we have to fight but nobody's gonna do it if everybody is like YEA PARTY WE ARE RIGHTS-FREE IN THIS COUNTRY, NO VACCINES AND NO FREEDOMS as if it's somehow hilarious?

and we won more than 40 seats in 2018. The fuck is wrong with you people?

it's pretty damn fucked what happened today, yes. no way to sugar coat it. but I figured he'd start flexing his muscles after he got faux-"exonerated" just as he did post "release the memo", post "Nunes-gate", post "Mueller report", and yet his momentum never lasts for long and we do manage to get a few licks in.

but hey if anybody wants to pack it in and think 2020 is over, well, there's other message boards mang

xpost fuckin' seriously. and even then i had to convince my Democrat friends that the election wasn't a disaster simply because Desantis won our state. like, stop listening to Katatonia cds or somethin

i have the other other kind of (mostly white) privilege in action, which is THIS IS MY COUNTRY because I WAS BORN HERE and I SERVED so if anybody tries to tell me democracy’s over there will be significant issues for them

I have always despised the handwringing and shrugging and moaning, especially since Trump didn’t even win anything close to a majority.

sometimes my wife is like “if he wins again, we’re leaving the country” and I am all NOPE I WILL NOT LET THEM WIN which, granted, could be its own variety of mental hangup

lots of people have that mental hangup

I don't think I'm engaging in performative despair here - for what it's worth I am fully expecting Trump to lose in 2020, barring even crazier electoral college math than what we got in 2016. But the fact remains that Trump has tried to interfere in both of these elections, both times was caught red-handed, both times "exonerated" by a Senate that was more than willing to engage in a cover up, and in both cases saw his approval ratings jump right afterwards. It's practically a given that he's going to try to pull something blatantly illegal in the months leading up to November.

srsly. Why would I surrender this country to this crew of sociopaths and charlatans, especially when Americans significantly poorer and browner than me will suffer for my cowardice?

Tombot otm, "I'm leaving" talk - even in mournful jest - just hands the nation to the usurper. And it abandons those without the resources to flee. In other words, precisely those ppl who are meant to be protected and or uplifted by the political action of privileged white liberals like, well me

what "both times" are you even talking about

xps

Or what Alfred said (and said better)

the 2016 election and the 2020 one

on a related note

Trump says the military should look at disciplinary action against Lt. Col. Vindman, who gave testimony in impeachment hearings about the president pic.twitter.com/yX1ysfOMQ5

— Jeff Mason (@jeffmason1) February 11, 2020

I have a similar Tombot-ish reaction rooted primarily in how long my family's been here and what I feel is my responsibility as a result

xps

i'm sorry guys, long enervating day both politically and otherwise and I'm feeling raw, probably i am overreacting to posts not meant to be unhelpful, wish I had the level of equanimity required to just take every shitty piece of news that hits me in the chest and instead of absorbing it as despair let it bounce off me as a donation to one of the thousands of candidates around the country who are trying to make things better in their own spheres.

sorry for this shitty metaphor, long day as mentioned above

pull something blatantly illegal in the months leading up to November.

I just imagine the scene in Three Amigos where the German keeps accusing Ned of using tricks to simulate his fast-draw skills, and then it turns out Ned is actually fast.

I get it, but sometimes part of processing the despair is just venting it out a little before it can be productively refocused. If that makes sense. I can only absorb so much disheartening news before I feel so overwhelmed that either a) I have to vent my spleen in despair, so to speak; or b) just shutdown completely and ignore it all. The latter, for me, is the far more damaging long term option. I absolutely get how performative despair comes from a place of privilege, but I also just fucking feel despair. Really strongly. It's hard not to in this constant onslaught. Hats off to folks who are far better disciplined with how they express it though, seriously.

we're all trying to cope with a shitty, twilight zone-ish situation. I rmde @ some of the drama queen theatrics (not talking solely about on ILX) sometimes but I understand where it's coming from (a good place...these ppl are on my "team"), can sympathize, and understand it's therapeutic as eephus and jon said.

I cheered myself by giving some money to Pennsylvania state legislative races

xp -- "I'm leaving" thought processes are always short-circuited by the fact that I'm a writer so no other country wants me

I think people should leave if they fear for their safety, but short of that it seems a little, idk, soft? Spoiled? Like you’re going to abandon your country because the president causes you some psychic distress?

Also, this is the most powerful country in the world - if it really falls to despotism or whatever then it’s going to be bad news for the entire world.

"Like you’re going to abandon your country because the president causes you some psychic distress?"

I've never considered leaving BUT if I did it'd wouldn't be cause of one asshole in the white house it'd be cause of the millions who want him there

Like there's this old coot who rides around town in a shitty military surplus truck with an enormous US flag and Trump flag. Yesterday he drove past and a group of milquetoast people waved and cheered him. Literally turns my stomach to share my country with these people.

Yeah that’s why I joined the military and got my ass out of Alabama

Plus side is my vote counts for more in AZ than it did in IL. Felt great to vote against Paul Gosar even tho the fucker won.

And here is much better than somewhere like Alabama as far as having fellow liberals around. Sedona and Flagstaff are pretty liberal, and Navajo and Hopi too.

ha this is all the reason i post FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT on twitter and i think here at least once. i do mean it. i even use "patriots" in reference to my 5 people in tweets, though i long disliked its use. more than disliked.

fuck them. this is our place too. you gonna march in dc with guns and masks? fuck you, you fuckboy fucks.

this said, talk is cheap. pixels is cheaper. VOTE VOTE VOTE. don't walk away, people need us. stand in, stand.

has any other incumbent president travelled around to the various primaries and given campaign speeches the way Trump has been doing? he's spending a lot of time declaring "victory" in Iowa & NH even though nobody's really running against him. its bizarre.

Meanwhile is this approach working for Warren:

In the week between Iowa and New Hampshire, there have been no messaging shakeups or public shifts in strategy. Warren, as usual, has refused to attack her rivals and stayed positive. She's made slight tweaks to her stump speech, but her message of uniting the party to beat Donald Trump, taking on corruption and offering the broadest menu of policies is the same as it's been for months.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/11/elizabeth-warren-sticks-to-plan-new-hampshire-113718

Not going to lie, my wife and I have discussed emigrating if there's a Trump win in November, and I'm not really interested in who does and doesn't approve. As a trans woman in a queer relationship, the continuation of Trumpism will result in an even bigger, more permanent target on my back and I am not especially interested in being anyone's martyr. "Voting is your most powerful tool?" Great. I'll vote absentee. But don't lecture me on some obligation to stay here and suffer.

Makes me think a bit about the question of roots. My family had much deeper roots in Eastern Europe and Italy than I have in the US, but they realized that the smart thing to do was to come over here, and they had the foresight to do it well before things got really bad over there. It sometimes pays to go before the bad stuff happens. All my relatives who were unable to leave Eastern Europe were eventually murdered. I have no plans to leave the US, but it's hard not to think about that.

True of my dad's side of the family as well. The ones who fled Austria-Hungary and Russia during the pogroms of the late 19th century all came here and thrived. Most of the ones who didn't perished in the Holocaust. My mom's side has early 18th-century roots here. My wife is a 3rd-generation American so her roots are not particularly deep.

Not going to lie, my wife and I have discussed emigrating if there's a Trump win in November, and I'm not really interested in who does and doesn't approve.

^^^

^^^^^^

completely disagree with the prevalent opinion that it's weak and cowardly to want to leave. esp with the references to "minor psychological trauma" or whatever that bullshit post was above. jfc

No one's life should be in danger in their country.

Yesterday I (lightly for me) railed against pre-election performative despair.

If it's ok to get the hell out of Alabama, it's ok to get the hell out of the other 49, right?

sorry, i misspoke. it was "some psychic distress"

LOFL

no WmC, it is your duty as a patriot to fight for alabama. if you leave alabama, it will make it worse for other good alabamans. and if you aren't in alabama, why aren't you? that's where you should be to make the biggest impact. now go rip your shirt off, grab some kitchen knives, and run straight into the woods there to fight racists

i dont put a lot faith in the “i am my ancestors” stuff. my “people” historically moved early and at adversity and toward oppty. where theyve got entrenched theyve been no more perfect than other whites. but the shit right now, while unimaginably bad, i hope it is the equiv of a death rattle as we all move forward together.

if we let them win now, they will unbuild all they can. they have no plan outside oligarchic neo feudalism. there is plenty reason that is immoral, and plenty reasons it needn't happen. i know a fed judge and i worked with former usas who know recognize and abhor this bullshit. when leas prosecutors quit and line attys withdraw, dont give up on them. ppl who cheered “yay someone quit, standards!”, i’m like, “NO THOSE PPL YOU WANT TO STAY, IT’S CABINET PPL YOU WANT QUITTING, GAH.”

i accept and know that the fears of minorities and superminorities are for real, but we need you to stand in, too. we need you.

i got a rando call from warren dude last night who’s asked me to canvas for warren in prep for super tue. if she’s staying in, i am going to do it. it is like actually the least i can do, besides voting. the only dem i’d eyeroll at this point is butti, and i’m scared sanders does not have the skillset to do what he wants, but maybe i’ll canvas for them i general if warren is out.

FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT

Lots of great otm responses here, but I struggle with the "if we let them win" part because it's not like we are just rolling over and giving up, it's because they are cheating and gaming the system at every single turn. I just don't feel like it's "letting" them win when we aren't even playing the same game at this point.

yeah good discussion, all I have to add is that the rising tide of fascism is a global problem and not confined to the US.

other people I know who want to move are doing it purely for health care reasons, which seems legit to me as our system is broken.

i'm not opposed to dipping but i'll absolutely cop to it being a consequence of privilege (for now). my gf has brazilian and italian citizenship, and i'm not sure how viable either those options are in the face of creeping fascism. and by that i mean i'm literally ignorant, particularly wrt italy.

anyway, she's not going anywhere until her two young kids (u.s. & itlalian citizenship) are out of the house.