You mean, over and above Ligeti or Boulez or Carter or…?
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul)
or cage! it seems like nobody would talk about cage without dismissing him as a cheap punchline. fucking ridiculous!
― you know my name, look up the number of the beast (rushomancy), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 14:57 (four years ago) link
It is Cardew who is the imperialist; he understands nothing of Stockhausen, whom I knew personally,
I suspect Cornelius Cardew knew Stockhausen a lot better, personally, than Paul Buckmaster.
― High profile Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 14:59 (four years ago) link
lol I deliberately didn't mention Cage because I find his music profoundly uninteresting as a listening experience, barring an exception or two. But the intervening years certainly haven't agreed with me, so perhaps it's some form of justice.
xp
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 14:59 (four years ago) link
Aside from the reasons given so far, Stockhausen also worked far more with electronics than any of those, except possibly Cage, so it makes sense that musicians who were exploring electric instrumentation might have looked to him. There's also just the powerful visceral impact of some of his music.xps
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:03 (four years ago) link
Yeah, that makes perfect sense. Musique concrète's protagonists don't appear to have been as 'marketable' fwiw.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:06 (four years ago) link
Wrt Cage, I can see why jazzers might not have been taken by a guy who scorned improvisation and rockers might not have identified with ideas of non-expression/non-intention. That said, Zappa and Patrick Moraz appeared on the 1993 Chance Operation tribute and a number of rockers have worked with the prepared piano.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:07 (four years ago) link
Stockhausen was a pioneer wrt live electronics, which seems significant.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:09 (four years ago) link
lol I deliberately didn't mention Cage because I find his music profoundly uninteresting as a listening experience, barring an exception or two.― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul)
this is how i feel about stockhausen!
― you know my name, look up the number of the beast (rushomancy), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:10 (four years ago) link
That's totally fair. The thing too is that both composers' outputs are so massive that there is likely much that could tip the balance either way were I to hear it.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:14 (four years ago) link
Love both, although it took me a little while with Stockhausen.
― With considerable charm, you still have made a choice (Sund4r), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:15 (four years ago) link
To go back to this thread's original premise, part of me feels like Stockhausen is a prime candidate for proggiest major postwar composer, if only because of his penchant for high-minded yet unintentionally silly conceptual grand narratives. Berio, too, but for completely different reasons (mostly having to do with proto-polystylism).
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:18 (four years ago) link
also his penchant for quilting together traditions, which is key to what makes prog "progressive" imo: not just the world-music tape-tapestries (telemusik and hymnen are distortion-heavy cousins to all you need is love) but also his constant drive towards at combining competing elements in the avant-garde (composed serialism, musique concrete, electronic composition, live electronic manipulation of all the above, plus some cheekily unacknowledged thefts from the early minimalists, and -- post his starvation-tantrum to persuade his wife to return to him in 1968 -- free improvisation)
― mark s, Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:30 (four years ago) link
Played not bad jazz piano, in his spare time, so I believe.
― High profile Tom D (Tom D.), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:35 (four years ago) link
Wouldn't be surprised given his son Markus's musical path.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:37 (four years ago) link
also indeterminacy of course
― mark s, Tuesday, 11 February 2020 15:45 (four years ago) link