physical attractiveness

that's interesting.

i've always been scared to death by the adage "at age 50 you have the face you deserve" but i'm getting close and somehow holding up alright

i got over this at an early age

ive little doubt that good looks can be a cheat mode, not always to a person's benefit, but it's hard to say for sure that really goodlooking people always know it either.

people who are very attractive and manage not to be dicks impress me, well done to them etc

I always figure it's best to be a medium level of attractive, where if people are into you they'll find you attractive, but you're not so good-looking that everyone treats you weird and/or objectifies you.

Unless you have ambitions to be a Hollywood actor or a rock star or something, then I guess being beautiful probably helps more than it hurts.

I'm in the sweet spot for this, ok looking, nothing out of this world. Look ok enough to have people be favourably disposed towards me, but not so good-looking that I engender suspicion or jealousy

i remember yr wdyll you mysterious exotic looking hunk u

a less attractive person is probably less burdened by this objectification

Objectification is not just about desire, it's about removing personhood. You don't get less objectified, you just get turned into a rejected object.

I can't get with a lot of self-affirmation/body positive stuff because the idea behind it is to extend what is considered beauty in the mainstream, so it still concentrates worth on body and appearance, and fails to challenge the system at all. Fuck corporeality!

Objectification is not just about desire, it's about removing personhood. You don't get less objectified, you just get turned into a rejected object.

Oof. Good observation.

Interesting thread.
I think that in a totally unconscious way, I credit v. good looking people with extra/superior qualities (before knowing them, obviously).
So I might get intimidated and interact with them like they have something more on a moral, psychological or intellectual level which doesn't make sense of course since good looks aren't linked in any way to other qualities...

Also, knowing well a woman who is v. good looking, I have noticed it definitely helps in many situations since I don't seem to be the only one who treats good looking people like they belong to some kind of aristocracy.
But it's also definitely a burden as it requires constant attention to other people's attitude and agenda (men obviously who are basically a permanent threat, but also women who are often mean and aggressive/jealous).
That's particularly complicated in business related relations because all men in power are very easy to access... but being taken seriously is something else. And all women consider her as a dangerous rival.
I suppose, being a beautiful woman is like being given the keys to a Ferrari : you move fast through life but it can be exhausting and dangerous !

I can't get with a lot of self-affirmation/body positive stuff because the idea behind it is to extend what is considered beauty in the mainstream, so it still concentrates worth on body and appearance

yeah i feel this big time. I get that a lot of that stuff means well but 95% of the time the message boils down to "don't feel left out - we can ALL be considered sex objects!".

emil.y v otm

except I still envision a positive corporeality, or at least materialism. You could argue that attractiveness is a function/relationship of non-material processes more than it's grounded in they actually corporeal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6teppvDXAE

man xps
idk why but I'm thinking about the American The Office. So the Office was a m/l "woke" series compared to most. But I remember Pam, Erin, and Angela and Kelly getting much more screen time than Phyllis and Meredith. Now this is certainly partially a function of aiming the series to a certain demographic (maybe this thread should have been about the fetisization of both youth and beauty).

Anyway I found a graph of lines per character, and I was right except, interestingly, for Kelly

https://i.imgur.com/OrbzUSB.jpg

Okay we all know youth and beauty are indeed fetishized, but my original query was more about how those both inside and outside this zone of attention are affected by the attention, or lack thereof, and what effect it has. and which is better. idk.

i identify with others who say this ranking and evaluating and hunting and possibly subconsciously ignoring ended fairly in life

fairly early

lol i'm really scattered and will let the thread go where it may

i always took the American office cast being pretty as evidence it was worse than UK office from its very inception.

otm

for an american sitcom is was very plain

i shudder to think what blandly attractive spray tan robots would have been cast for Peep Show US

one reason Uncut Gems was so great is that at least half the people on screen looked like actual people rather than tooth-whitened workout dudes, which is increasingly what all actors do now

otm

re: office chart
https://imgshare.io/images/2020/02/11/Screen-Shot-2020-02-11-at-10.06.48-AM.png

Objectification is not just about desire, it's about removing personhood. You don't get less objectified, you just get turned into a rejected object.

That's true, but at least that means you weed out the people who compulsively objectify others, thus escaping a lot of confusing and dehumanizing attention and leaving the field open to people who might see you as a person.

hot ppl are just better, sorry

Much like inherited wealth, physical attractiveness is routinely underrated by those who benefit from it the most. Or by those who have so little of it that it's best to pretend it doesn't exist at all.

Being hot is a decision

— Perfume Genius (@perfumegenius) February 12, 2020

Even if i cared about being 'hot' and got a new do and used product and fixed my eyebrows and shaved, my face is still my face

it's trippy how you can "like" a tweet from within ilxor.com

I'm working on an esby theory

is perfume genius a spinoff site where randos tell you the meaning behind each perfume and inexplicably use the n-word a lot

I think Perfume Genius makes bobbins

I appreciate a lot of the body positivity stuff but I find it sad that a lot of people seem to be just always yearning for some mass validation.

(Not bobbins, Perfume Genius makes arty queer pop music and his last album is amazing)

(great live as well)

has anyone else noticed the proliferation of onlyfans.com? it's a way for people (usually extant social media personalities with a non-negligible amount of followers) to make money by posting exclusive content (that they wouldn't or can't post to twitter/instagram) behind a paywall at the onlyfans site. the platform allows nudity and porn, and that seems to be the majority of what ppl are posting there.

sadly this potential income stream is not accessible to me, as a 45 yr old skinnyfat mess. it would seem you'd need to be, indeed, physically attractive.

i've seen a few examples now of (otherwise?) woke folks with onlyfans accounts, always involving racy pics/vids. one dude i follow does it, the rest are young, attractive women. does any of this seem hypocritical or unfair?

and if this is the mainstreaming of "camming," is that a good thing, or bad thing, or neither?

No. It's just working with the reality we live in. Wokeness doesn't preclude wanting to make a pile of money from people gawking at your nice face, flawless skin and general shapeliness.

yeah but equality and fairness seems to be a central tenet of wokeness, and making money this way is exploiting the privilege that is a nice face etc

(shrugs) we're talking wokeness, not sainthood.

yeah but equality and fairness seems to be a central tenet of wokeness, and making money this way is exploiting the privilege that is a nice face etc

― i will FP you and your entire family (rip van wanko), Wednesday, February 19, 2020 11:38 AM (eight minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

stfu nerd. go back to 4chan

After discovering that Drew cannot perform the Heimlich maneuver, even though he is a doctor, and cannot play tennis, despite the fact that he worked as a tennis coach, Liz decides that she has to leave Drew, and ends their relationship.

ha! I was wondering if this thread was all about people UnFAIrLy making money off of other people finding them physically attractive.

According to the Nielsen ratings system, it was watched by 7 million households during its original broadcast.

yeah but equality and fairness seems to be a central tenet of wokeness, and making money this way is exploiting the privilege that is a nice face etc

there are a lot of "woke" celebrities who do exactly this but that's just the nature of the society we live in

i think there is room for multiple perspectives

i agree partially w/ emily earlier itt, i support anyone who feels inclined to say "fuck corporeality"

it's fine to hate your body, or feel neutral about it, or love it, wherever it falls on some arbitrary, negotiable, continually expanding and contracting spectrum of 'physical attractiveness'

perfume genius also seems right to me. being conventionally attractive does not mean you are inherently interesting and being actually "hot" is kind of something different in my mind

and i recognize this will vary wildly depending on what your experience is wrt being considered or not considered a "sex object" and how you feel about that, but for some of us, maybe seeing ourselves as a "sex object" is an empowering & desirable thing, in the right context? objectification can certainly be dehumanizing, and can remove personhood. but (if we are going to be kink-friendly in this conversation) i might very well want a sexual partner to treat me like a sex object, and them doing so in a way that i enjoy may in fact affirm my personhood, and in the context of that relationship might even be an essential way of affirming my personhood

[this premium-level post available only to my subscribers]

stfu nerd. go back to 4chan

― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Wednesday, February 19, 2020 11:47 AM (eighteen minutes ago)

otm tbh

rip van wanko either doesn't understand how shallow and foolish that criticism is, or he thinks he's yanking our chains, because we are all the slaves of wokeness and will be flummoxed at discovering our own hypocrisy in having countenanced such unequal social and ethical behavior.

"all bodies are beautiful" type stuff is kind of an attempt to make compatible the 'woke' commitment to equality and the uncomfortable fact that physical attractiveness is unfair and unequally distributed, even if it's not a very successful one? redistributing attractiveness by changing the definition of what's considered attractive

so the issue isn't worthy of discussion/debate, okay, cool

haven't received my permission to post itt yet iirc

if hostility towards rvw is in fact genuine then fuck yiz for pricks tbh

I mean thoughtlording over whether sex work is bad is essentially what's going on here now

Sex work is bad because it conflicts with the extremely bad faith imaginary precepts of wokeness

Onlyfans seems if anything less obviously, horribly exploitative than the majority of pr0n production

I mean thoughtlording over whether sex work is bad is essentially what's going on here now

― Swilling Ambergris, Esq. (silby), Wednesday, February 19, 2020 3:47 PM (five minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

by whom?? I'm just asking questions which should be obvious.

but maybe i am a moron if a notice a possible objection that is so apparently invalid

btw no one's shown how

whom are you "just asking questions" of, are you "just asking questions" like people "just asking questions" about race science or are you genuinely in need of some like introductory pamphlets about third wave feminism

yeah see

rvw has posted on this site for fuckin years and apparently a gang of ye have decided after one fuckin random thread a week back hes in the shithouse column

and its a shit fucking look

no one's shown how

all you've offered is so vague that it would not be possible to show how 'wokeness' is 'hypocritical' in this instance, because you are just handwaving what this wokeness is espousing that is incompatible with the actions you are not quite describing. Get down to cases, rip.

darragh u genuinely arguing we should be nicer around here? different tune than I remember you playing of late!

deems, you're off base. only one person responded with hostility toward rip personally, as opposed to the content of what he was posting. and I fp'd that hostile response, btw.

xps. to darragh. im a cunt to lots of people on here who have been acting the arse less than he is itt. and since when did you become the civility police? thought you were in the bring back dom club?

xxxxp i probably do need those pamphlets, but the issue of exploiting an inherent privilege is still there, and while i have no objections to anyone's choice to engage in sex work, there is something weird about having this big pool of like-minded tweeters out there and now the hot one's have this new way to make money and promote it on twitter

it does bother me (sincerely) that the way i brought this forth is so distasteful to some poster i really like like jiv and silby... it does seem like a moderately interesting topic though? i'm wondering how i could have changed my approach

(BUT i was full aware before starting this thread that ppl would gag and roll eyes, yet again there's something there worth discussing)

pffft civility police schmivility police

its the why and when ye decide to bull in to someone that as a group is bollox

gloves on or gloves off and not this "we'll decide when we're cunts"

nb i mayve been on the vinho verde but looks

ye want a community and ye bemoan the lack of that then ye descend on the least charitable interpretation of yer pet subjects like foaming dogs and whenever ye note that the site is in a nervous wreck ye attribute it to anything but this pinchnostril pack mentality

i think it might be worth looking at love ye x

Shouldn't you be concentrating on the Spurs game?

i wont stand over any of this in the mornin obv

xp better off drunk fighting online tbpfh

See what happens?

ffs

If you want to discuss it seriously, then get serious about it. define what you think is hypocritical and how that hypocrisy is damaging to people, in such a way that someone could respond seriously to it. don't just aw shucks your way into it and indicate there's something there, but you can't quite put your finger on it. if your finger can't touch it, don't expect us to locate it for you and refute it. if you want to be taken seriously, do your job.

great revive iirc

ffs

okay fair enough Aimless

RVW, I took your question seriously and asked a question in return. What did you think about it?

I think a lot of “body positive” / unconventionally attractive people get to make a little money from prurient material. In the grand scheme of things, that’s good imo. It also argues for the title of this thread being eroded over time.

Probably something to be said for the fact that people on average are taller, healthier, more symmetrical, and have better teeth now than ever before in human history. So on top of the definition being expanded to meet the “long tail” of various audiences, the average attractiveness of any given person is also increased. I feel the argument is rapidly becoming moot.

physical abraxasness

https://static.vibe.com/files/2015/09/carlos-santana-compressed.jpg

Plastic surgery more popular and widespread than ever.

It’s also cheaper and more widely available than ever.

I did read a piece about the “botox brow lift” explosion recently and looked at the before/after pictures of several celebrities and influencers who apparently chose that procedure. I didn’t feel sad, but I definitely didn’t feel attracted.

the amount of plastic surgery and other cosmetic procedures that is currently going on is fucking insane.

maybe i shouldn’t judge. to each their own. who am i to say what people should do with their own bodies. but i can’t help finding it pretty insane. i certainly find it unattractive, physically, about 90% of the time, and the other 10% is when i haven’t noticed it!

most people have certain strong attributes that they choose to and/or are forced to monetize or not.

re: modern plastic surgery aesthetics. I wonder if all of that will look very outdated soon/now. Like, with the heavy contouring/bronzing. Beauty standards change more rapidly now.

Despite discrimination, illness and general physical danger, I cant imagine wanting rid of corporeality, I love it. Not just physical beauty and sex but dancing, playing instruments, martial arts, running, jumping, nice baths, patting/scratching/stroking animals and much more.
Anybody really just want everything to be energy waves?

Marcos- you really think some people should hate their own bodies?

Rip Van Wanko - I'm not going to be presumptuous but what you said does sound a bit like the guys getting angry about girls on twitch getting an audience for their looks (recent stats say these girls aren't even in the top 20 streamers; not shocked that gamergaters are wrong again) or making easy money (I doubt this is ever actually easy).
It warms my porntimist heart to see so many people camming, onlyfans, manyvids, patreon etc. I just wish paypal and amazon would get more in on the act.

I do feel a bit guilty that I love one of my dogs more because she's more adorably cute than her sister and has a more emotional face. Some animal species surely fare better through their looks.

pinchnostril

is this body shaming???!?!?!?!?!? somehow?

Anybody really just want everything to be energy waves?

i very much enjoy corporeality and being in a body / my body but also ~~~~everything is already energy waves~~~ and to be fully oblivious of my separateness of those waves sounds pretty rad, it does entail oblivion though

Marcos- you really think some people should hate their own bodies?

some people do hate their bodies. what i meant is that it's not really my role (or anyone else's but theirs') to tell them that they should, in fact, love their bodies

I think it would be better to not care than to hate your body if you cant like it.