The Clash: Classic or Dud

I liked that podcast in the predictable ways I would, as both a Clash and PE fan. I did learn a fair amount. My favorite episode was the recording of Sandinista, which made me revisit it. It sound like it was fun to make.

Burning=burnishing

what's the best book about the Clash

Last Gang In Town, probably

that was my guess but hard to tell from rando internet reviews

got it from the library - am learning a lot and generally enjoying it, but Grey's fixation on the band's various inauthenticities ("Joe Strummer's family life was not as terrible as he initially made it out to be!" or whatever) is kinda irritating/stupid

yeah I thought of caveating, but it doesn’t change the fact that the reporting is good

he gets really cranky & bitter abt selling out later on, iirc

lol I suspected as much

Yeah, but wasn't 'Sandinista!' their 'Kid A'?

― tarden, Wednesday, 6 June 2001 bookmarkflaglink

lol

I really don't want to hate-listen to Sandinista but this might've pushed me over the edge

Something interesting I just discovered: the US version of the debut album has been memory-holed.

To recap, for those who don't know... the Clash's debut came out in the UK in 1977, but CBS in America hated it, so it didn't come out here until after Give 'Em Enough Rope, and the track listing was radically altered. "Deny," "Cheat," "Protex Blue," and "48 Hours" were removed, and post-album singles "Clash City Rockers," "Complete Control," "(White Man) In Hammersmith Palais," and "I Fought The Law" were added, and the single mix of "White Riot" was swapped for the LP version. But if you pull the album up on Spotify in the US now, you get the UK version.

Black Market Clash gone too

Now you have to go into the comps and box sets to make a playlist version.

Although people already have

But if you pull the album up on Spotify in the US now

This is a very specific and miniature memory hole

Appalling. Here you go: https://open.spotify.com/playlist/5JaaajKZNOxriOZCJIZqB7?si=8f3a26cf911c4341

needs the 7" version of White Riot

I wanted to check Discogs before saying that Black Market Clash was "memory-holed" twenty-eight years ago when Super Black Market Clash came out worldwide, but an Omaha bar / Star Wars t-shirt shop did license a 5,000 copy 10" pressing from Sony in 2011

The weirdest thing about Super Black Market Clash was that it left off so many tracks from the original. I love the meandering b-sides, but it seems like those missing tracks would have still fit on the CD.

I don’t remember the pretty intro to “Capitol Radio.”

Is there any specific reason why a band with six albums on the same label has such a confused discography? Are there any songs from 1977-1985 that never came out on CD, or are currently not available or anthologized?

Good point.

xp:
Talk about memory holes. One of VG’s absentminded thread.

Now I’ve been studying the charts
Using my mind and my imagination

I’ve got a version of “This is England” on Dutch 7” that never was repeated

Is there any specific reason why a band with six albums on the same label has such a confused discography?

Two reasons - CBS in the U.S. fucking around with their debut, and the fact that they released so many non-LP cuts (45's, EP's, etc.)

The same thing happened with their peers (see Elvis Costello), and even trying to simplify things with a compilation gets messed up because inevitably the U.S. label will fuck with the compilation due to the original tracklist including stuff they put on the American versions of certain albums (and excluding the stuff they dropped).

Are there any songs from 1977-1985 that never came out on CD, or are currently not available or anthologized?

Nah, their last big release made sure of that too - it was a box set meant to be the very last word on Clash releases. (As promised, I don't think Mick Jones has touched any part of their catalog since.)

Is that Sound System or something else?

Correct, Sound System.

Seems to have everything but The Clash SqueezeCut the Crap.

HAH, true, but that's like fake Clash. "This Is England" is great, but fuck everything else on it.

I don't why "This is England" is considered a standout. That cast-o'-thousands chorus is corny as hell. I mean, the album is a dud, but I actually appreciate the cluttered mashups of "Dictator" and "Fingerpoppin'" as a continuation of where Combat Rock was headed.

I liked "Dirty Punk" as well. The album is bad, but not "cast this out of the canon" bad.

Cut The Crap is...as good as any other Clash album, and better than some. Their whole discography is a goddamn mess, and as a strip-it-to-the-bone, no-pop-moves record it more than does the job. The guitar sound is ugly as shit, but in a really interesting way, and when you combine that with the Big Black-ish drum machine, the random stabs of ultra-80s synth, and the gang vocals, Strummer was actually really onto something. People who don't like it are too attached to the mythology of four dudes in a room makin' rock 'n' roll.

IIRC, I think Bernie Rhodes was the one who dubbed in the chorus without Strummer's approval. It's probably better without it, but I'm okay with it - it's an anthem, and it does feel like a stadium full of soccer fans singing it. (Not a bad song for soccer fans to sing in unison, if that ever happens.)

Sound System doesn't include everything, it's missing 2 tracks from the This Is Radio Clash 12" for a start.

i had never really been bothered to check before as my wife was the clash fan in this house.
but it turns out that my cd of the debut is the US tracklisting.
is that the standard edition these days, or, if i see it again will it be more likely to be the UK tracklisting ?

Looks like since 2002 CD reissues have been the UK version

I hadn't listened to the first album in ages until this revive. Hit the spot. It's remarkable how much the band benefits from better production. On the US version, "I Fought the Law" just pops right out for that reason.

Mark - the US version has the band name in the top right (and reddish), the proper version has the band name in the lower right, and more orange.

can't rely on that unfortunately:

https://www.discogs.com/The-Clash-The-Clash/release/16033574

Mark did ask "these days," ie in the 21 years since the remasters, not "if I'm buying loose CDs taken from mysterious European box sets and flogged individually second-hand"

iirc Mark likes to buy CDs from charity shops which means it's not unlikely he'd encounter something like that. there's more than just that one, also found a UK track list with a US cover from 2012

Sound System doesn't include everything, it's missing 2 tracks from the This Is Radio Clash 12" for a start.

Ah, my mistake. Truth be told I never bought it - I know Mick Jones supervised the mastering very closely, but he still had the whole thing crushed with additional compression (a fucking bane on modern digital masterings - I wish people would stop doing that for physical releases). I stuck with the original CD releases, but FWIW, here's what's missing that has been issued on CD elsewhere:

1. Justice Tonight/Kick it Over (available on "Super Black Market Clash")
2. Mustapha Dance (available on "Super Black Market Clash")
3. Robber Dub (available on "Super Black Market Clash")
4. Listen (Full version) (available on "Super Black Market Clash")
5. Radio One (from "Hitsville UK" 7" B-Side, available on Singles Box Set)
6. Radio Five (From "This Is Radio Clash" 12" B-Side, available on Singles Box Set)
7. Outcast Broadcast (From "This Is Radio Clash" 12" B-Side, available on Singles Box Set)
8. Janie Jones (Demo) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)
9. Career Opportunities (Demo) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)
10. One Emotion (Available on "Clash On Broadway")
11. Every Little Bit Hurts (Available on "Clash On Broadway")
12. Red Angel Dragnet (Edited Version) (Available on "Clash On Broadway")
13. Ghetto Defendant (Edited Version) (Available on "Clash On Broadway")
14. English Civil War (Live) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)
15. I Fought The Law (Live) (Available on "Clash On Broadway", version on the Sound System box set is different)

Also the version of "Clash City Rockers" included in the box set is the slower "correct speed" version. As detailed elsewhere, their manager thought it would help to speed up the record when it was originally released, even though Mick and Paul sounded like chipmunks on the backing vocals. The original 7" is sped up and many CD masterings kept it that way, but quite a few CD's even before Sound System have it in the original speed when they went back to the first-generation master tape.

Looks like since 2002 CD reissues have been the UK version

I remember when the Clash's CD catalog was remastered in 1999 (IIRC they took longer to appear in the U.S. and weren't released here until the following year), they advertised (at least in the US) that it was the first time the UK version would be available on CD anywhere. More accurately, if you were in the UK or US, it would be the first time both versions would be in-print on CD there at the same time. However, in the UK, the previous CD was the UK version, and in the US, their previous CD's were always the US version.

I still prefer the UK version. I love the stuff they added to the US version, but it sounds too much like they shoehorned in stuff from later sessions - it's recorded better, they had a different (and better) drummer. It feels less cohesive and more patchwork, so it plays more like a compilation which I guess it really is.

can't rely on that unfortunately

Much more succinct - thanks bovarism. This is what I have, and it's a great sounding CD, supposedly from the original master tape. No additional compression, no trebly-happy EQ, perfect if you want to crank it up.

The US edition of the debut >>>>>>>>>>>>> UK

However, in the UK, the previous CD was the UK version, and in the US, their previous CD's were always the US version.

I don't think this is right, I have the US edition on CD, which I bought in the UK in the late 90s, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't an import, although Discogs just lists it as "Europe".

Mark - the US version has the band name in the top right (and reddish), the proper version has the band name in the lower right, and more orange.

― bobo honkin' slobo babe (sic), Thursday, August 5, 2021 3:00 PM (twenty-two minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

can't rely on that unfortunately:

https://www.discogs.com/The-Clash-The-Clash/release/16033574

actually, that's the cd edition i have.
will keep eye out in the charity shop bins for UK version from hereon though.

When they remastered and reissued them all back in the late '90s or whenever, they definitely re-released both the US and UK versions in the US.

indeed -- I own both.

When they remastered and reissued them all back in the late '90s or whenever, they definitely re-released both the US and UK versions in the US.

Yes, that's what I was referring to, but those came out in 2000 in the U.S. They were issued in 1999 elsewhere, so they may have been imported until they were formally released in the U.S. the following year.

I don't think this is right, I have the US edition on CD, which I bought in the UK in the late 90s, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't an import, although Discogs just lists it as "Europe".

I didn't want to confuse things further because it's really complicated, but to go into greater detail, both the US and UK version had been available on CD in the UK prior to the 1999 remastering campaign. I even remember thinking the UK version had never been issued on CD in the UK. But several years later I found out about the stock UK version that pre-dates the 1999 remaster. It looks like this:

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-8JE6nroVJG4/YGcmCmtvVzI/AAAAAAAABME/l4ltideIyR8DQWYCMbi9WRvbgKjo4Lh9wCLcBGAsYHQ/s0/IMG_20210402_1505214%257E2.jpg

ta all - I remember the orange-bottom red-top thing being codified with the 1999 remasters (which are good!). iirc they also say "remastered by Bill Price" or "Mick Jones and Bill Price" on the back, if mark's flipping.

(Mick did remaster them that round, but he might not have taken a credit.)