The Jordan Peterson Thread

sorry this was disingenuous. peterson made a name and money for himself by going round telling people what to do, which is always a mucky business, and i think it took place within a context of his own considerable vulnerabilities. it’s not easy to have responsibility for our vulnerabilities so no criticism there, but the pressure put on people to do so looks like projection.

he inserted himself into public life with this schtick - i certainly wouldn’t have heard about this had he not done so - so no i certainly don’t feel bad for him, and although i don’t welcome it, i do think it’s good reason for anyone to ever listen to him.
― Fizzles, Saturday, 8 February 2020 17:04 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

or some version of that sentence which reads i hope he disappears from public life and deals with his shit in the privacy of his own world.

― Fizzles, Saturday, 8 February 2020 17:05 (three hours ago) bookmarkflaglink

theres so, so many people who tick every box in this breakdown, across basically every set of ideologies

nb i agree, fuck em all (or, more accurately, the fuck should i care) but the above set of criteria only becomes a bad thing when one considers his specific ideology/message and the overall effect of the morons who have embraced it

i once when having a complete breakdown over an essay i couldnt make myself write followed some very didactic rules from a jordan peterson pdf and it actually helped me get it done. i knew exactly how ghastly jp was, so was fully informed but i think it gave me a real insight into his appeal as a self-help guru for fragile young men and why he's so dangerous.

theres so, so many people who tick every box in this breakdown, across basically every set of ideologies

― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac)

yes i agree IT IS A VERY BIG PROBLEM ON BOTH SIDES

oh shit is that what i said?!

oh its not, phew.

Thoughts and prayers, etc

I don’t understand why he would need to go to Moscow to get treatment for drug addiction.

This is the only part of the story I find strange or even worth talking about.

maybe he's addicted to novichok

i once when having a complete breakdown over an essay i couldnt make myself write followed some very didactic rules from a jordan peterson pdf and it actually helped me get it done. i knew exactly how ghastly jp was, so was fully informed but i think it gave me a real insight into his appeal as a self-help guru for fragile young men and why he's so dangerous.

― plax (ico), Saturday, February 8, 2020 9:08 PM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

Yeah. Most self-help stuff is just re-stating common sense advice and putting it in a new shiny package, or burying it under a bunch of obscurantist crap to string people along and/or overwhelm them.

In JP’s case, it’s bowdlerized Jung mixed with dumbed-down evo-psych (which is saying something).

This tactic will never go out of style. It’s a reliable grift!

oh shit is that what i said?!

oh its not, phew.

― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac)

my bad, carry on

Is his wife dying of bowel or colon cancer?

Problematic post about the irony of the guy who fears the chaotic feminine having the behavioural disorders (restrictive diet and benzo addiction) of a 20 year old woman

mainly because it's not 1966 anymore and "mother's little helper" is no longer an up-to-date bit of social observation

https://i.redd.it/xbj2zdklk8t41.png

so this is his daughter who has taken over all his social media since he was put in a medically induced coma (!) for benzo addiction. some of his fans believe that this daughter is taking advantage of him to promote her own brand and are angry. went down a rabbit hole today folks.

also, apparently she took him to russia for "cold turkey" benzo withdrawal, which caused the coma. generally you do not go off this medication like that; they are upset that western doctors didn't have the "guts" to oversee a cold turkey withdrawal.

very strange people.

there was some discussion above about the russia thing -- i just mentioned it again because it is still really weird and not explained well.

this came out a while back but I'm not sure it really sheds any light on the situation: https://newrepublic.com/article/156829/happened-jordan-peterson

to be honest, addiction is hell and i don't feel any pleasure in anyone having to endure withdrawal. however, it's a very strange story and extra-strange now that his weird carnivore daughter has become his only spokesperson. and it sends a poor message to people who follow him who may struggle with chemical dependence themselves. (i shouldn't have used the word "addiction" i guess--they say he wasn't abusing the meds, he just was physically dependent). i.e., in that situation, you need to trust doctors and other healthcare professionals.

more importantly though

"dig graves" wtf

The man is a buffoon who has warped the minds of millions and brought up all sorts of terrible shit in his slipstream, it isn't that I take pleasure in his suffering, just that karma is in short supply these days and you have to appreciate it when you can.

“He was using a drug to escape the pain of reality, period. Call it whatever you like, but it doesn’t change the facts,” wrote the user KingLudwigII on Reddit.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ef/Ludwig_II_of_Bavaria.jpg/220px-Ludwig_II_of_Bavaria.jpg

(i shouldn't have used the word "addiction" i guess--they say he wasn't abusing the meds, he just was physically dependent). i.e., in that situation, you need to trust doctors and other healthcare professionals.

― treeship., Tuesday, April 21, 2020 1:00 PM (forty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

being physically addicted to benzodiazepines is a form of drug-addiction. it's fanciful that Jordan Peterson, a clinical psychologist, wasn't aware that regular use of benzodiazepines causes addiction.

true. and addiction is a medical condition that happens to the best of us. his daughter's refusal to use that term is her own hangup.

well no, if I understand right, it doesn't technically count as addiction, because his bedroom was very tidy.

i don't understand how we didn't get a "defend the indefensible" tag in the title of this thread

the sad thing is, the advice to keep your living space clean and have pride in yourself and what you do isn't bad.

i don't know why this kind of advice always seems to come tethered to a reactionary political ideology.

i know that gets said time and again. but i feel bad for people who get roped into self-help gurus.

well taking pride in yourself and what you do could be bad, depending on who you are and what you do

kind of over extending empathy to those who have none for anyone else

well no, if I understand right, it doesn't technically count as addiction, because his bedroom was very tidy.

Oh shit

He would make a good Sideshow Bob

the sad thing is, the advice to keep your living space clean and have pride in yourself and what you do isn't bad.

My mother said it first and better.

my understanding is many of the people drawn to him feel they lacked strong parental figures. and so they are craving some firm boundaries.

that's how he gets them.

This is an interesting update. Is reopen and dig graves serious or is she joking?

either he's saying we should reopen and resign ourselves to digging graves because it's the cost of business or (and i think this reading makes more sense) he said [if] we open [then] we'll be digging graves.

Yeah I'm tempted to see him as saying the former but I suppose it's probably the latter.

the sad thing is, the advice to keep your living space clean and have pride in yourself and what you do isn't bad.

i don't know why this kind of advice always seems to come tethered to a reactionary political ideology.

Well, it's placing the individual and their bedroom floor as the centre of everything isn't it - it's saying the immediate little world, as opposed to the big societal world that's hard to think about, is what you should be focusing on. Which is a reactionary position - know your place in the system, don't try to change the system.

Also a lot of people struggle to keep things clean and tidy because ... they've got three kids, they're dog tired by work, they've got a drug or drink problem, and the list goes on of shit people might have to deal with that would get in the way of tidying up and being crisp and professional. The assertion that everyone can and should be good at keeping house throws shade on a lot of and in fact most real life people who are not, it doesn't stop to ask why the room is a mess.

Also the reason self help creeps like to talk about these little down to earth things is it undercuts complex or imaginative thinking someone might be doing, and getting real on someone is a nice strong arm tactic for getting people on board. Or as was said upthread the person who pushes room cleaning takes on a parental role in relation to their target.

I fucking hate self help books and their online spores fwiw, 'accept what you cannot control' begs so many questions and doesn't want to answer any of them

His audience is man-children who live in one room in their parent's house, they don't have kids or jobs.

Yeah, they're cut off from those real life pressures

One of his other imperatives is 'Assume the other person has something interesting to say', which is a very clever way of saying that people who have been victims of abuse must not be rude to people who are talking total shit about it. Or, swap in whatever lived experience might make you rude and impatient when you encounter someone you disagree with; the point he's making is it's your fault if you get furious. It so obviously disparages good, honest, real people

+ gives so much ground to any horrible arsehole that can maintain poise which is most of them

respectability politics for jarheads

Well, it's placing the individual and their bedroom floor as the centre of everything isn't it - it's saying the immediate little world, as opposed to the big societal world that's hard to think about, is what you should be focusing on. Which is a reactionary position - know your place in the system, don't try to change the system.

i mean, sort of. people do need to take care of themsleves; that doesn't preclude activism or whatever.

Get a job, hippie.

treesh god bless

but this fuck actively denies the humanity of trans ppl including many excellent and good Ilxors why the fuck are you wasting a moment on feeling sorry for him? it's not like you couldn't find a literal billion or two better people dealing with tragedy

also his love of "room cleaning" isn't benign, its libertarianism's "you get what you deserve" bootstraps bullshit writ small

Also if you want a self-help maven selling books off the back of “tidy your room” who isn’t alt right kondo is right there

That's a good point that. The difference between Kondo and Peterson on this same point is subtle but massive. She's saying come on, let go of this junk, enjoy a bit of air and space. He's ... not saying that.

Treesh, I can unreservedly say this fuck should die and if it were painful and televised and he was crying the entire time then that would be preferred.