Mystery Science Theater 3000: C/D, S/D.

So I saw the touring production with Joel the other night -- nights, really, both Friday and Saturday:

Seeing #MST3Klive on Friday and Saturday night in SF was a real treat, and I'm so glad I went. If this is indeed Joel's formal bowing out from the role he created, while still helping guide its future, then it couldn't have been more fun. pic.twitter.com/JfNKkF7Hyg

— Ned Raggett (@NedRaggett) February 4, 2020

And I muttered this on FB:

So back on Friday and Saturday night, as I briefly posted then, I saw two of the three SF performances on the current Mystery Science Theater 3000 live tour. (The third was a matinee of the Friday show.) Joel Hodgson, the originator of the whole thing, has said this is his last go-round with it as the central figure live (and likely for good), so while ticket prices for close seats were up there, ultimately I felt I had to go for it. And it was well worth it -- the presentation was a stripped-down and engaging affair, almost like the theatrical equivalent of the earliest actual episodes, though with an eye towards careful cleverness in how to showcase the robots, add extra visual elements and so forth, all while keeping the core of making fun of some trashy movies (_No Retreat No Surrender_ on Friday, _Circus of Horrors_ on Saturday). There was also something of it feeling just so right -- MST3K is probably the TV program I ultimately love the absolute most, and where time casts certain lines and things in new and not always better lights, I can't sit with those people who seem to think it was a blight on moviegoing and criticism and so forth. It comes out of a place that doesn't really exist anymore -- late night UHF broadcasts of cheaply made and cheaply acquired films and the sheer befuddlement of seeing them, combined with the Vampiras et al of the world on various local stations as the hosts of bumper segments -- and has become its own origin point for a slew of other approaches in turn. Nearly thirty years is a long time to fly the flag for anything when there's so much more to learn and discover, but even if we're not talking the from-when-I-was-six Tolkien and Star Wars interest I still have -- and, say, Schulz and Peanuts before then, the ultimate lodestone -- it all seems to move beyond nostalgia towards transcendence in its own way. I've only ever seen Joel once before live during a filming of his pilot _The TV Wheel_ back in the mid-1990s, so there was that too, while this supporting cast did a solid job, and Joel made more than one comment -- perhaps underlined by the fact that Netflix has dropped the revival -- that this was 'the future' of MST3K, and it's a little noteworthy that Emily Marsh, to the right of Joel in this shot, was set up the _No Retreat_ performance as, quite possibly, the next person in the jumpsuit alongside the bots. If it took over 50 years to get to Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor, then 30 for the equivalent here is an improvement. Maybe the future'll be more productions like this? Maybe something through Shout Factory's own channel? Who knows? But all I can tell you is that I had a good time, and it was especially nice being among 'my people' in the crowd -- a whole mix, older and younger, and by no means not all middle-aged white dudes like yours truly. I think we all had that slight look about us that knows we're not glamourpusses or bros or whatever, we're just people. That suits the show as its best too, and I'll always be grateful. Towards the not too distant future, in whatever form it holds.

I can't sit with those people who seem to think it was a blight on moviegoing and criticism and so forth. It comes out of a place that doesn't really exist anymore -- late night UHF broadcasts of cheaply made and cheaply acquired films and the sheer befuddlement of seeing them

Absolutely OTM, and yet I have come to a place of total comfort being an advocate on both sides of this debate.

The Buddha of MST3K

Interesting:

http://www.mst3kinfo.com/?p=28884

In brief: Susan Hart, who has the rights to five of the remaining eleven or so episodes not formally rereleased, is apparently on the verge of a deal with Shout Factory.

We watched the 'Mac & Me' ep last night, pretty fun, I guess they still have it. Any recommendations out of the other 12 that are on Netfix?

cry wilderness

the mac & me episode utterly slayed me

I second Cry Wilderness, which is an enjoyably bonkers movie on top of all the riffing.

i never came back to pick up the final six episodes. can't remember which were funniest/best in terms of riffing, but just in terms of movie selections, Cry Wilderness the most jaw-dropping of the first batch, and pretty much all of them have the right "feel" to be MST movies. i think Time Travelers and The Christmas That Almost Wasn't were the toughest to get through. i never really fell in love with the cast or the pacing of riffs but i got more used to both as it went on... maybe a little of that is like a "getting used to Mike after Joel" thing, but it never quite shook a certain 2010s "bad movie podcast / bad movie youtube channel" energy that just isn't for me. still totally glad it happened though.

Yeah they're compelled to fill all the empty space with jokes. It comes off too blatantly as pre-written, where the pacing and delivery of the original run maintained the illusion of quick witted reactions on the fly.

Agreed with that. But yes Cry Wilderness and Mac and Me both agreeably insane. Avalanche was an amazing botch of a film. Generally speaking all the film choices were good, it was the end results that were varied -- the 12th season/six episode run had the advantage of none of the shoe-horned cameos or the clumsy Max/Kinga dynamic, it was more just breeze through it all.

This may owe more to my not-very-good hearing, but when I watched the first few Jonah episodes after they debuted, I had a hard time telling the bots' voices apart, which didn't help that "cramming a joke into every spare moment" approach.

same experience here.

I had that issue too - they both have a similar tone and delivery

Okay so the new riffalong special is live in about half an hour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kuEE_fOPcTA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZXMttOWzLY

i find it weird that they are riffing an old episode so it’s like double riffing except the newbies are just kinda ... watching?

ok it’s still funny

but the interludes are v awkward lol

feel like adding additional riffing to an existing episode might be approaching Peak Riff, but I'm still here for it

agree

Bury My Turtle Hat at Wounded Knee is still one of the funniest lines to me

A bit random all in all but nice to showcase the touring cast as a bit of a wider intro. The end short was creepy and weird (of course, it's the circus!).

This has been bugging me for awhile but I finally realized that The Mountain Goats song "Genesis 3:23" has been reminding me of the Puma Man theme. They aren't the same but similar enough, at least according to my subconscious.

Well Mike's REALLY shot himself in the foot here, sadly; his beliefs aren't the surprise but this is all pretty wretched:

http://mostly-retro.com/2020/06/14/the-bigot-doug-tennapel-and-his-friend-mike-nelson/

(This Doug guy is the source of most of the wrath in the post, but some of the specific Mike bits aren't so hot, like him complaining about people wearing masks right now. Mm, really?)

yeah wow, this is a huge bummer to read.

wow I had no idea

Mike was revealed as kind of a shit politically all the way back to 9/11, not a big surprise here.

Yeah, that part's pretty baked in.

Yeah, he’s near the top of my list for people who I trust are utter shit in real life but still contributed to something crucial in my life. Like, I guess, Christopher Columbus, et al.

He might be the ultimate test case for separating the artist from the art, and damned if the last 10-20 years haven’t made that a bold statement to make.

He’s rot.

Vaguely hoped he'd bucked the trend and wised up a little in the Trump era but no surprise he hasn't.

Also, based on the evidence throughout Rifftrax, not even funny anymore.

Eh, sort of an update:

A statement from Mike Nelson pic.twitter.com/vM5xe0jtKN

— RiffTrax (@RiffTrax) June 17, 2020

In response to someone asking "This is a good step 1. But will you be taking further measures to show this is not just spin?"

More word on that soon.

— RiffTrax (@RiffTrax) June 17, 2020

Ya gotta wonder.

Nice to hear that he didn't dig in his heels. Because that's a pretty common response, too. Could have easily gone that way.

As it is, given some of what he DID say regardless, it's not enough. We'll have to see.

I've seen enough of a pattern to know what I need to know.

I'll still watch season 4-6 episodes, thought, because that's the shows peak.

Eh, I was always a bigger Joel fan anyways.

The writer of that blog responds to Mike's note (thread):

I'm going to preface by saying: If you continue to support Mike and Rifftrax, I do not judge you. We all make our own decisions in situations like these.

My decision is that I will never watch an episode of Rifftrax again. I'll elaborate. https://t.co/mKOkcQ0pQg

— Lost Turntable (@LostTurntable) June 17, 2020

That said, this does carry a lot of weight with me:

Frank, as someone who knows Mike Nelson, do you then believe his statement and apology as being earnest? I ask as a lot of us msties are struggling

— Kyle As Elusive as Robert Denby Rader (@YourOldPalKile) June 18, 2020

Yes, I do. https://t.co/hlqoM8eEP4

— Frank Conniff (@FrankConniff) June 18, 2020

Things just mattered less when they were working together, I guess.

Tangentially, I feel like there should be a thread about being torn about throwing out old media we used to enjoy because the creators have turned out to be assholes. There’s a lot of chatter on individual artist threads that touches on this but I can’t think of one place where the discussion has ever coalesced on the principle and the sacrifice as opposed to “fuck so-and-so (or only sort of)”

Yeah, well, as I've indicated, I'm fine keeping the art.

I sort of assume now that most people who welcome any kind of attention are not good people

Er, media attention.

Felicia Day guested on the flophouse podcast with Elliott Kalan, covering 1980's Hawk the Slayer

https://www.flophousepodcast.com/2020/06/episode-315-hawk-the-slayer/

Couple of things of interest -- first, interview last week with Joel on various ideas going forward:

https://www.ign.com/articles/mystery-science-theater-3000s-creator-joel-hodgson-discusses-another-comeback-upcoming-mst3k-projects

And The Girl in Gold Boots soundtrack got a full-on legit release via Modern Harmonic/Sundazed -- even a vinyl/DVD package, crazy!

https://nicholascarras.bandcamp.com/album/girl-in-gold-boots-original-motion-picture-soundtrack

wow @ soundtrack release!

Yeah, that I didn't expect, but totally makes sense Sundazed was ultimately behind it all -- something like that in terms of the music backstory and sound is right in their wheelhouse.

Ended up watching a bit of "The Incredibly Strange Creatures..." the other night, still a great episode overall but those cracks about the dancer's gender have not aged well *at all*. I always felt those gags were kind of mean anyway as it's not like she's particularly butch, just well-toned. But now there's an added layer "Oh fuck guys, please don't go there."

It's a sad reminder that revisiting old comedy, even from the supposedly much more right-on nineties, can be a bit of a minefield sometimes.

Oh yeah that one's essentially unwatchable now on that front. Almost surprised they formally released it.

On a brighter note, the fundraiser they did tonight featured a couple of new short riffs by a pretty fun one off team of Joel, J. Elvis back as Tom and Bill Corbett as Crow. Only caught the second one, about a supermarket manager doing a 'take your kid to work' thing for the 1950s -- pleasant, not deathless, but fun chemistry!