Your next 2020 Democratic presidential primary thread: Now we're serious

a thing would've presumably had some impact on him getting elected

it was a thing, he just did fantastically well with so many types of voters so it wasn't an issue.

sanders won't do anywhere as near well as obama, in 08, so it could conceivably hurt his chances at victory.

It was a thing, but not an issue. Clinton voters were not 100% behind Obama, lord have mercy!

The whole my candidate or bust mentality is going to kill us all.

def agree about this

under-35s delivering a presidential nomination/presidency

Not BY THEMSELVES. Enough to make a difference.

I would not cast a symbolic vote for Biden in NY when Shithead is losing by 20 points. Might for Warren, but her campaign instincts seem real bad lately.

def turned off by the cultishness around bernie tho i guess i feel sympathetic about the feelings of desperation that lead anyone to join a cult and it's not the worst kind of cult you can join obviously. i think those ppl will be disappointed one way or the other (inevitably). was the robotic repetitions of bernie's name in his thread recently the result of ironic cultlike mantra recital or sincere psychotic cultlike mantra recital i think actually sorta the latter btwn the two is my feeling :/

it's happening

I think cultishness is bad not good but different people will vote for a candidate for different reasons, some ppl because they are leftbro cultists and other people b/c they want to not go broke paying for chemo

It was a thing, but not an issue. Clinton voters were not 100% behind Obama, lord have mercy!

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), Friday, January 31, 2020 10:04 AM (one minute ago) bookmarkflaglink

30% of people who voted for clinton in 08 - according to one study - didn't vote for obama (25% voted for mccain while 5% didn't vote). again, it wasn't an issue because obama did well enough for it not to be. it likely would be for sanders

was the robotic repetitions of bernie's name in his thread recently the result of ironic cultlike mantra recital or sincere psychotic cultlike mantra recital i think actually sorta the latter btwn the two is my feeling

bernie sanders

Interesting article in the Times about how Sanders is now running ahead of Biden with non-white voters.

Interesting article in the Times about how Sanders is now running ahead of Biden with non-white voters.

― o. nate, Friday, January 31, 2020 10:16 AM (three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

bernie sanders

mental image of Sanders sprinting in front of Biden while carrying a confused Hispanic man

lol

not particularly on topic but scrolling through FB I just encountered an FB group called "throwing a party when Sanders drops out" which states:

"We don't know the exact day. It might be next March; it might be the day of the 2020 convention (seriously, that again?) but the day Bernie drops out will be cause for a virtual, nationwide celebration among Hillary's base. This page isn't for "reaching out to find common ground" or "healing divisions among Democrats" or whatever. It's for supporting women* candidates, but also for processing your seething resentment so it doesn't eat you alive.

GROUND RULES:
1. Hillary was robbed. All hail our rightful leader. We must elect a woman* in 2020.
2. Negative comments about Bernie and his followers are encouraged, but stick to the facts. Or not, because f*** those people.
3. Only positive comments about female* candidates. Negative comments should be for the purpose of comparison to other female* candidates.
4. Tulsi Gabbard is not in the cover photo for a reason.
5. Al Franken was also robbed. Comments that argue otherwise will be deleted. Gillibrand isn't going to get the nom anyway.
6. Comments about Biden, Beto, Mayor Pete, Inslee, Christ there are so many of them and they all blend together: open season. Be as catty as you want, but try to compare their negatives to a female* candidate's positives.
7. I know Cory Booker should be asterisked, but he's not going to get the nom either.
8. Ground rules subject to change at the whim of the admin(s).

*or Julian Castro "

obviously this group has been around for a long time. It has....400 members.

lol @ "or Julian Castro"

Brokered convention would be an absolute disaster, turnout would be crushed with whichever wing loses but especially if the progressive wing gets told to suck it up and 'vote blue no matter who.'

intimidation/being dismissive of others within the party

lol yes, this is endemic to Sanders supporters and Sanders supporters only, definitely no centrists who've been crying BE REALISTIC for decades

I bet they throw real fun parties, they sound like a treat

xxp

as a tactic it's bad when either side does it

re: a brokered convention - if Warren manages to hang in and deny Biden a clear majority - and if both hers and Sanders' delegates combined exceed Biden's, then there will definitely be a deal made that would not necessarily disappoint the progressive wing. That's a lot of "ifs" though.

xps

I've had enough battles with dumb-ass (white, always white and male) Sanders supporters to still keep me firmly in Sanders camp, but I acknowledge she will likely lose in Iowa and I agree more than not with Sanders' proposals.

you mean to keep you firmly in the Warren camp?

"Warren's support seems to be tanking" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when people use her "cratering" as a reason not to support her. To me that seems backwards; I would rather continue my support for her until she's no longer an option, rather than abandon it because other people have. Just me, maybe.

for my part, it's a strategic thing. If by the time the CA primary rolls around Warren is in the low teens and Biden and Bernie are in the 20s, I'm gonna vote for Bernie - because I prefer him to Biden, and my vote is unlikely to make up the wide margin between Warren and the others.

you mean to keep you firmly in the Warren camp?

― akm

uh right! I'm not the first to confuse two-syllable white people names.

Miraculously didn't hurt him too bad

― Mario Meatwagon (Moodles), vendredi 31 janvier 2020 12:57 (forty-nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

Obama came to power after eight years of the most disastrous and unpopular Republican President of my lifetime. That he won in 2008 doesn't really disprove very much about PUMAs.

in Sanders' defense he does have executive experience, albeit in Burlinton during the Reagan years. But I wonder how dogmaticism and inflexibility, which have served him well as a candidate since 2015, will work when a man approaching eighty embodies those qualities.

How many of y'all are willing to bet that in the chance (slim but real) the Senate flips the Dems (Manchin, Coons, Klobuchar, etc) will be pains in the asses like the GOP Senate caucus rarely is?

seems like a safe bet yes

I think we can all agree Sanders has the most unpleasant online supporters. OTOH he also has the support of folks like the homeless people who hang out in front of my local McDonalds whom I overheard talking about Bernie the other day.

lunatic Clinton cultists who are never voting for sanders

not convinced these people exist outside of twitter

I would say I know one person like this and I know a lot of Democrats
I know one person who hates Trump like poison but won't vote for Sanders because he's convinced that Sanders (and Labor) is too accepting of anti-Semitism

(first is in a swing state, second not)

I can think of a couple of Sanders voters who have said they won't vote for Biden but I can't truly say whether they mean it or whether they're just venting on FB
(but then again, the Sanders voters I know are lefties, not the beloved and much chased exurban white Obama-Trump anti-establishment fuck-the-Man voters.)

So basically 99% of everyone I know, Sanders people, Warren people, Biden people, etc., are "Vote Blue No Matter Who" and for that matter I'd say that slogan is universally meant to apply to disgruntled Kamala stans and disgruntled Joe Biden stans as much as it's supposed to apply to disgruntled Sanders stans

But there are definitely proportionally more of those people on Twitter than I ever encounter in reality, that's true.

trial balloons for fall:

Vote for the Angry Jewish Grandpa, It's Important

Vote for the Capitalist to Her Bones, It's Important

Vote for the Drooling Hawk Who Torpedoed Anita Hill and Supported Mass Incarceration, It's Important

two-syllable white people names

Out of curiosity (with my apologies for steering you off-topic), what exactly does 'white' mean for you? As a non-American, I get the sense that it often just means 'broadly Anglo', which from my admittedly foreign perspective seems reductive and unhelpful. Do 'Warren' and 'Sanders' scan the same as 'Laxalt' (Basque) or 'Latso' (Georgian) or 'Dushku' (Albanian)?

for my part I can say that Dushku scans as "terrible actress"

I knew that was coming lol but was too lazy to look for another bisyllabic Albanian-American name.

"Warren's support seems to be tanking" becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy when people use her "cratering" as a reason not to support her. To me that seems backwards; I would rather continue my support for her until she's no longer an option, rather than abandon it because other people have. Just me, maybe.

― Okay, you're an ambulance (Ye Mad Puffin), Friday, January 31, 2020 12:46 PM (seventeen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

for my part, it's a strategic thing. If by the time the CA primary rolls around Warren is in the low teens and Biden and Bernie are in the 20s, I'm gonna vote for Bernie - because I prefer him to Biden, and my vote is unlikely to make up the wide margin between Warren and the others.

― Οὖτις, Friday, January 31, 2020 12:48 PM (fifteen minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I've been going back and forth between these two perspectives for the past month or so. But Illinois doesn't vote until March 17, so I assume the field will have shaken up quite a bit by then.

Fixed this for ya, Morbs:

Vote for the Angry Jewish Grandpa Who Supported Mass Incarceration, It's Important

same

these threads would be better if non-americans were not allowed to post in them

NY votes April 28, and if it's still a contest the hot takes will "go to 11"

yeah, for fuck's sake, Morbs, Sanders called shit on Clinton for voting for the crime bill while also apologizing for voting for it too. The crime bill was an enormously complicated -- legislatively and politically -- thing with good things and terrible things that the climate of the times demanded. Plus, Hilary Clinton was not a legislator in 1994.

I know you mentioned Biden, but that part of the 2016 debates really pissed me the hell off. He got off the hook because he projected reluctance but Biden and Clinton didn't because, well, why?

these threads would be better if non-americans were not allowed to post in them

:(

i'm not enough of a poli-junkie to remember all this shit

but u guys have fun (as you are)

https://www.people-press.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2020/01/PP_2019.01.30_dem-values_0-04.png

it's like Mets fans

just 'prepared'

the last 4 years have been very traumatizing

that level of confidence on the GOP side doesn't bode well when and if trump goes down

Concern trolling about how Sanders would handle a Dem Senate is dumb. The least aggressive, most back-slapping President in history isn’t going to make Joe Manchin less of a dick.

re: election violence if Trump loses, I wouldn't be surprised at repeats of Bloody Monday, Colfax Massacre etc. albeit in 21st century terms ie random well-armed shooter in a black church or synagogue or similar

If the Dems take the Senate and the WH, the political power of Manchin and his ilk multiplies exponentially. This is not concern-trolling, it is a fact. Sanders isn't likely to cut deals that someone like Biden would to get Manchin's vote, which could mean the difference between good legislation, shitty legislation or no legislation at all.