Prog-Rock Politics

I don't want to speak on anyone else's behalf but I didn't get the impression anyone was arguing Richard Dawson's music was reactionary *because* it's complex (or knotty or 'difficult' or anything along those lines)? I mean there are aspects of the criticism I don't agree on (I like Dawson's recent stuff a lot!) but I don't think that was the gist of it.

No idea what this is about and not going to trawl through a 3000-post thread to find out, but:

1. "living in the heart of the beast" is a fucking fantastic song.
2. it would be better if it were about a woman throwing raisins at a pile of bones
3. i will never quite forgive henry cow for breaking up slapp happy.

1. Yes
2. I quite enjoy the clumsy didacticism of the lyrics but yes it would have been better on a raisin theme.
3. That's like blaming the new flame for breaking up a marriage, it was probably written in the tea-leaves anyway.

A friend read the Henry Cow book so I didn't have to, apparently Fred Frith was a king shagger and it was all a bit dysfunctional, so much for revolution eh

I don't want to speak on anyone else's behalf but I didn't get the impression anyone was arguing Richard Dawson's music was reactionary *because* it's complex (or knotty or 'difficult' or anything along those lines)? I mean there are aspects of the criticism I don't agree on (I like Dawson's recent stuff a lot!) but I don't think that was the gist of it.

― Gavin, Leeds, Friday, 31 January 2020 15:23 (nine minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I guess this wasn't quite it either, although Weyes Blood also drew criticisms based on her musical stylings. While she and Dawson obviously hark back in their music, you can't call either reactionaries - there are far too many modern or idiosyncratic touches in the production and composition to say that they're simply rehashing old ground. What they certainly have in common is a way with a complicated melody, which is why I drew the inference that this might be the off-putting element. They're both very maximalist and they don't keep it simple - on top of them operating within supposedly dead genres, I really do think a lot of the opprobrium comes from a place of wanting music that doesn't fuck around

I think at the time Blegvad was quoted as saying, "The Cow is full of bull".

Matt DC and others were hailing Billie Eilish as sweeping in a new ultra-minimalist aesthetic that's supposedly going to dominate the 2020s - I do wonder if ILX might have bought into that narrative a bit much. I don't think the 2010 pop narrative was nearly as maximal ist as they think, and there's a lot of directions maximalist pop hasn't really tried yet (tt said to me last night that she thinks a big theme this year will be overt genre-blending, a la Poppy). And then there's yer Herndons and Gatelys and their computers. I'm not saying Eilish is leading us to a dead end, but...well, by definition there's less you can do with minimalism. Let's see

I think Dawson got attacked because comrade alphabet didn't read the lyrics and thought it was about exercising.

It's the first thing I do before listening to a song, read the lyrics.

I thought it was just because he's shit tbh

Probably a melt cunt as well! I heard he once talked to a racist!

stop embarrassing yourself.. Louis

I think Weyes Blood and Dawson are two really different artists. Dawson comes from a folk background, and at least his last few records has been made with community and solidarity in mind. 2020 might sound like a prog-influenced indie-rock album, but to me it's pretty clearly a leftist attempt to make a rock album that both sounds contemporary, and can actually matter to people today. Instead of just being a punk rehash or something. I'm not sure I can figure out where Weyes Blood fits politically, but it's more baroque retro-indie to me. Yeah, a few contemporary strokes, but I feel like it's less than some would like it to be. I think there was a pitchfork review where it was pointed out that she wore modern shoes on the cover, and that showed how the whole thing is a mix of new and old. It's not really, it really wouldn't sound that crazy on radio in the seventies. But the hits are undeniable to me.

She fits politically next to Bernie Sanders, hence the picture that got posted to the 77 thread, and comes from an explicitly folk background - listen to her last-but-one album The Innocents. Obviously there are differences in style and subject matter, but even there, both explicitly deal with issues of loneliness and fragmentation in late capitalism

They both also explicitly have drawn influence from medieval music

Working class music is the music the working class listens to. Which, as we all know, is homogenous and easy to pinpoint because all working class people listen to the same music. Glad to have cleared that up for y'all.

both explicitly deal with issues of loneliness and fragmentation in late capitalism

She got that bit from Harry Nilsson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sJj4KTFC_Y

Morton Feldman:

My teacher Stefan Wolpe was a Marxist and he felt my music was too esoteric at the time. And he had his studio on a proletarian street, on Fourteenth Street and Sixth Avenue. . . . He was on the second floor and we were looking out the window, and he said, “What about the man on the street?” At that moment . . . Jackson Pollock was crossing the street. The crazy artist of my generation was crossing the street at that moment.

listen to her last-but-one album The Innocents.

I'm sorry, but I only listen to music if it's been bnm'd by p4k.

No, just kidding, I'll give it a listen.

I don't want to speak on anyone else's behalf but I didn't get the impression anyone was arguing Richard Dawson's music was reactionary *because* it's complex (or knotty or 'difficult' or anything along those lines)? I mean there are aspects of the criticism I don't agree on (I like Dawson's recent stuff a lot!) but I don't think that was the gist of it.

― Gavin, Leeds, vendredi 31 janvier 2020 10:23 (forty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

This certainly came up, though (not specifically wrt Dawson):

Prog is the word here. Middle-class notions of complextiy.

Anyway, I definitely don't think this stuff is more reactionary and regressive than retro-80s Eurotrash or tbh commercial pop music but the dumbass 'stuff white people like' conflation of anything that seems 'cultured' or 'refined' with social/class privilege and, conversely, of vulgar aesthetics with some some kind of lower-class struggle, regardless of the actual class position of the people involved, is a longstanding peeve of mine.

the dumbass 'stuff white people like' conflation of anything that seems 'cultured' or 'refined' with social/class privilege and, conversely, of vulgar aesthetics with some some kind of lower-class struggle

It's also unspeakably condescending.

Richard Dawson serves imperialism

Working class music is the music the working class listens to. Which, as we all know, is homogenous and easy to pinpoint because all working class people listen to the same music. Glad to have cleared that up for y'all.

― pomenitul, Friday, 31 January 2020 bookmarkflaglink

I thought working class music was juvenalia?

For the 95834903th time, you may want to *read* other people's comments before replying to them.

If only because I didn't use that word and it doesn't mean what you think it means.

Rubbing salt in the wound, or is that a joke? I can't tell anymore.

Richard Dawson serves imperialism

― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver)

In general I am going to steer clear of this argument but I got this! I did a lol!

(Also Art Bears rule as much as Slapp Happy do, so I would be totally unable to make a real choice there)

Anyway, I didn't vote in the poll but this butthurt revival is bought to you by the same person who basically said your choices in that poll were, more likely than not, terrible. The bigger joke is that all along were batting for THIS.

And when anyone (such as myself) had a problem with it was basically oh it's just our LJ now casting himself as the poor soldier in a fight for so called complex music us lot can't begin to comprehend.

Well I've seen no evidence to the contrary

that kenny g article in jacobin made a big impact on me too

You want evidence-based discussions talk to Fred

Anyway, I didn't vote in the poll but

Alphie, I'd like you to demonstrate to us, the audience, how and why 'Baby Are You Coming?' is essentially 'working class music'. I would also like you to clarify your grounds for arguing that merely disliking that song and deeming it 'juvenile' – and 'unsexy' (can't leave that one out) – as I did on the tracks rollout thread is an instance of elitist contempt towards the proletariat in general.

― Wuhan!! Got You All in Check (Camaraderie at Arms Length), Friday, 31 January 2020 bookmarkflaglink

I just want to read the thread without the pain!

Super awesome that you're totally not trolling imago yet can't keep from tripping over your own feet when responding to literally anyone else

you guys really don't like Family Feud huh

Can somebody tell poster Drugs A. Money I am not replying to him? Thanks. No offence, just don't want to trip.

Smooth😎

👍

was dreamily hoping for 54 new posts about the henry cow book but I'll take what i can get

no dunts
no libs
no prog-rock politics

we kick LJ just for fun?

We kick starmer/lj/rentoul/fred b for fun?

From Cardew to Dog Eat Dog, I'm a man of catholic tastes

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progg

pleased to meet you, I hope you know my name

xp

no dunts
no libs
no prog-rock politics

― frederik b. godt (jim in vancouver), Friday, January 31, 2020 8:10 PM (twenty minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

underrated post

it wasn't!

you never know where your prog will go
prog politics
prog politics
prog politics
prog politics