I agree!
― Blues Guitar Solo Heatmap (Free Download) (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 15:34 (four years ago) link
Southern rap started with Bubba Sparxx.
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 15:39 (four years ago) link
nah, it was Justin Timberlake
― Οὖτις, Tuesday, 28 January 2020 16:32 (four years ago) link
"Atlanta really didn't develop much until later, MC Shy D wasn't very distinctive just influences from NY and Miami"
sure but kilo was doing pretty distinctive stuff in terms of both style and content as early as 90, and direct lines of influence can be drawn from him to outkast, gucci, cee-lo, d4l, etc. raheem the dream too, who literally put on fabo and young dro, two of the central style generators of '00s atlanta
the gruffer side of goodie mob -> jeezy -> 2 chainz too can prob be traced back to sammy sam and the hard boys, who draw heavily on ll cool j (basically a miami bass artist by adoption the same the showboys are new orleans bounce) and rap-a-lot , respectively
― 100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:26 (four years ago) link
also it's especially insane to say that raider klan is disconnected from the southern rap tradition they were basically a three 6 mafia cover band when they started
― 100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:27 (four years ago) link
whiney sent me this last night and i did not give a fuck but now i'm mad
― 100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:29 (four years ago) link
kilo / raheem / sammy sam were all innovating while working broadly in the miami bass tradition, i should say
― 100 flacs (noz), Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:32 (four years ago) link
This retrospective “review” spends three paragraphs in the middle actually talking about the album, before drifting off into increasingly fuzzy and box-ticking discourse. It’s kind of a bummer.
― dad genes (morrisp), Sunday, 2 February 2020 15:57 (four years ago) link
...just realized they timed this to coincide with the Super Bowl Halftime show, lol
― dad genes (morrisp), Monday, 3 February 2020 01:11 (four years ago) link
I dunno, I think of Sunday Reviews as inviting much more of a cultural-criticism approach. Since the albums came out years ago, the reviews function less as a consumer guide and more as a way of putting those albums into context, in the way that a 33 1/3 book on the album would.
― jaymc, Monday, 3 February 2020 05:02 (four years ago) link
I realise this isn't exactly an original point to make, but isn't Pitchfork supposed to be the place we go to get away from the likes of Shakira?
The Super Bowl tie-in makes it even worse.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Monday, 3 February 2020 09:38 (four years ago) link
Why would anyone want to get away from Shakira? What kind of business model is that?
― Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2020 09:40 (four years ago) link
xpost that was my initial thought about the Halsey review, but it turns out I was wrong
― alpine static, Monday, 3 February 2020 10:21 (four years ago) link
isn't Pitchfork supposed to be the place we go to get away from the likes of Shakira?
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Monday, February 3, 2020 4:38 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink
it hasn't been that for at least a decade
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 11:14 (four years ago) link
Yeah, I know they've been at this for a long time, but that still doesn't make it any more palatable. There are a million other websites in the world where you can read about Shakira.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Monday, 3 February 2020 12:00 (four years ago) link
the reason the "pitchfork is dumb" thread will soon reach 16,000 posts is that it took way to long to grasp that a model allowing you to hide away from "the likes of" was a model that kept you dumb
it's still not great at thinking abt all the stuff it spent so long hiding away from
― mark s, Monday, 3 February 2020 12:04 (four years ago) link
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Monday, February 3, 2020 7:00 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink
fwiw I agree with you, but luckily there are plenty of other places online to read about niche, non-mainstream music
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 12:12 (four years ago) link
Believe me, I hear more than enough of Shakira in everyday life situations without wanting to.
― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Monday, 3 February 2020 12:36 (four years ago) link
nearly 15 years since this ship sailed, christ. not even certain why shakira’s your line in the sand, nor do i believe there are even thousands of websites on the rapidly shrinking internet on which to read critical writing about shakira
― american bradass (BradNelson), Monday, 3 February 2020 12:58 (four years ago) link
yes because if there's one thing we desperately need it's "critical writing" about pop stars
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 13:00 (four years ago) link
Brad OTM.
FWIW, I began to hang out on this message board 17 years ago because it featured smart people writing critically about pop music. So this seems like a weird place to air that complaint.
― jaymc, Monday, 3 February 2020 13:05 (four years ago) link
I honestly thought the piece on Shakira was good and informative. I didn't really need more paragraphs telling me what Whenever, Wherever sounds like, I kinda remember. But the context was illuminating.
― Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2020 13:08 (four years ago) link
For me it isn't the pivot to critical writing about mainstream pop music (and the corniest of indie rock) I find troubling as much as the exclusion and abandonment (which, if you're thinking in terms of niche genres like free jazz or black metal and taking into account Pfork's enduring influence on tastes, is basically erasure) of almost everything else
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 13:17 (four years ago) link
that's a bad sentence but you get my drift
afaict they review more jazz than ever
― american bradass (BradNelson), Monday, 3 February 2020 13:19 (four years ago) link
I said free jazz. I also didn't mean the 0.0002% of jazz (mostly coming from the London We Out Here scene and / or Kamasi adjacent) they've deemed worthy of coverage this year. Would be nice to see some coverage of people like Julia Hülsmann (and ECM artists in general), Mary Halvorson, John Zorn, Dave Rempis, Tomeka Reid, etc etc etc. There's a great new Bill Frisell album with Petra Haden they haven't bothered to review.
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 13:53 (four years ago) link
did those genres receive more coverage in the Golden Age of Pitchfork?
― seandalai, Monday, 3 February 2020 14:16 (four years ago) link
no
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Monday, 3 February 2020 14:20 (four years ago) link
They still employ Andy Beta, who reviews stuff like that all the time
xp
― ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Monday, 3 February 2020 14:20 (four years ago) link
Andy Beta and Phil Sherburne are two of the reasons I still occasionally check in.
Perhaps I’ve given the impression I care more than I do. I've long resigned myself to the fact that most of the music I listen to - techno / ambient / drone, some death metal, some jazz - is not really served by Pfork, so I don’t usually make a habit of visiting the site. But I think it's weird to just dismiss jon123's complaints, which to me are valid, even if some of us are tired of flogging this particular horse
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 14:27 (four years ago) link
Why?
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Monday, 3 February 2020 14:45 (four years ago) link
Because once upon a time it provided a refuge from the corporate entertainment it now doggedly promotes?
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 14:55 (four years ago) link
I do believe that was the point jon123 was making. If I'm mistaken, I apologize.
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 14:56 (four years ago) link
yes it once upon a time approached the problem in a smug and a dumb way, hence 16000 posts dunking on it
― mark s, Monday, 3 February 2020 14:59 (four years ago) link
because no one dunks on it now
― Paul Ponzi, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:00 (four years ago) link
I don't think it 'promotes' Shakira by talking about the album?
― Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:04 (four years ago) link
It got 7,6, hardly a rave
― Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:05 (four years ago) link
xxp
1. "Once upon a time" was a long time ago. (Seriously, P4k started reviewing pop songs in 2003.) The site has evolved, thankfully. And not just about the genres it covers; the criticism is also sharper and more thoughtful, and it's less of a boys club.
2. Writing about an artist != pr2omoting them.
― jaymc, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:09 (four years ago) link
needs to be said--laundry service is a good album. they didn't deliver a fawning retrospective of the j. lo self-titled album for a reason.
― ooga booga-ing for the bourgeoisie (voodoo chili), Monday, 3 February 2020 15:15 (four years ago) link
People who whine about "corporate music" just because it's corporate music don't actually like music; they like being special and use obscure music to make up for not having a personality.
― totally unnecessary bewbz of exploitation (DJP), Monday, 3 February 2020 15:19 (four years ago) link
I didn't really need more paragraphs telling me what Whenever, Wherever sounds like, I kinda remember.And I remember the conversations around Shakira’s skin & hair color in relation to her crossover success; as well as ppl making fun of her name and “breasts are small and humble” lyric, etc. I’m not sure why we need all those points dutifully rehashed; I’d rather have read something fresh & illuminating about the actual album. But whatever
― dad genes (morrisp), Monday, 3 February 2020 15:21 (four years ago) link
It kinda felt like — “Shakira’s in the Super Bowl, but let’s not forgot these Problematic Aspects around her initial success in the U.S. (And btw, 7.6)”
― dad genes (morrisp), Monday, 3 February 2020 15:24 (four years ago) link
"I" is not "we" though. There are a lot of Pitchfork readers who may not remember that discourse—including those who weren't alive for it.
― maura, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:24 (four years ago) link
yeah p4k's target readership was probably in daycare when the album came out tho
― Muswell Hillbilly Elegy (President Keyes), Monday, 3 February 2020 15:26 (four years ago) link
I don't remember that discourse, because when the album came out I was a 22-year-old snob who wasn't paying attention to pop music.
― jaymc, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:28 (four years ago) link
Fair enuff!
― dad genes (morrisp), Monday, 3 February 2020 15:28 (four years ago) link
I'm with morrisp on this one. That didn't feel like an album review to me so much as a cultural essay with just enough mention of the album to include it in the album reviews section of the site. The context was interesting for the first half, but it kinda felt like that review was basically all context.
― enochroot, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:35 (four years ago) link
It's not that I disagree, but that is what the Sunday Reviews are, and I don't get why that is so horrifying.
― Frederik B, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:37 (four years ago) link
Yeah, like I said last night, I think the Sunday Review generally takes a different approach and perspective than the daily new reviews do. But perhaps the score at the top leads people to think of it along the same lines. Maybe they should get rid of it?
― jaymc, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:39 (four years ago) link
Then how would they retroactively award a 10.0 to an album they wouldn't have touched 15 years ago?
― enochroot, Monday, 3 February 2020 15:40 (four years ago) link