Christ. What is it, make Ireland 99% white again?
― steer karma (gyac), Monday, 27 January 2020 15:09 (four years ago) link
give or take
― Catherine, Boner of JP Sweeney & Co (darraghmac), Monday, 27 January 2020 15:13 (four years ago) link
dont be stupid, be a smarty, come and join the National Party!
― Saxophone Of Futility (Michael B), Monday, 27 January 2020 15:50 (four years ago) link
I’m sure we’ve discussed this site before but this crowd are doing God’s work imoSome great archive stuff of Dev, Bertie and others, but ofc I see this cunt up first https://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/paul-mcweeney-a.jpg
― steer karma (gyac), Monday, 27 January 2020 17:44 (four years ago) link
https://irishelectionliterature.files.wordpress.com/2020/01/paul-mcweeney-b.jpgI mean, this emigrant would like to return, but something about this guy makes me think he wouldn’t be welcoming my husband.
― steer karma (gyac), Monday, 27 January 2020 17:45 (four years ago) link
shit theres a big possibility i work with a sister of his and all
― Catherine, Boner of JP Sweeney & Co (darraghmac), Monday, 27 January 2020 18:51 (four years ago) link
sad lol
― steer karma (gyac), Monday, 27 January 2020 18:58 (four years ago) link
Know that thing where you're trying to climb down from calling someone autistic, so you start randomly saying the n-word, on record, to The Times? pic.twitter.com/v3KUlB77CV— Séamas It Ever Was (@shockproofbeats) January 28, 2020
― Andrew Farrell, Tuesday, 28 January 2020 18:34 (four years ago) link
The parents seem to think FG will be out after this election. Who would FF go in with? The Brits are in for a rude shock if they celebrate Leo going.
― steer karma (gyac), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:41 (four years ago) link
Lol Eilis O Hanlon, how the fuck is she still alive
By stoking toxic Anglophobia, Leo Varadkar is digging his own political grave | Eilis O'Hanlon https://t.co/4QvJGLSHCs— Telegraph Politics (@TelePolitics) January 29, 2020
― steer karma (gyac), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:45 (four years ago) link
People in the Irish Republic always liked to boast that they were above the tribal hostilities of the North
― steer karma (gyac), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 11:50 (four years ago) link
ah thats a northern/shinner trope for a large part, with various currents of truth running through it at different times or in different contexts maybe
who should or who will ff go in with?
have to say theyre bullish enough towards everyone atm, not sure theyre even making noises about making fg sit second bench in a reversal scenario
i think ff/ind is too much a stretch, but even if lab/greens could make up the numbers without the more Impossible independents (whose numbers id think should fall hard in the event of a voter return to lab/ff) could a programme for govt arise from suchba coalition, and would the last ff/l/g govt not yknow remain in the memory?
*shrug*
― (darraghpc) vs (darraghmac), Wednesday, 29 January 2020 12:58 (four years ago) link
right
not to say things is perfect, obv
but
notwithstanding eh tbh bias in reporting and/or bias in what one chooses to read of what's available and reported inherent
irelands good compared to some of the larger ilx brand countries
dont @ me pls i live there, and anyway we need to get over that to get to the next rather simple point
two big fuckin homogeneous-abouts lumps of central parties are a good thing if they continue to rotate about each other without forming one sun and the electorate can flavour the options for forming coherent govt effectively
discuss
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 12:01 (four years ago) link
just the small questions then
this seems to include -
realistically what's the best you can hope for from government?
is there an optimal size of nation state if we must have such things, and aren't there serious economic advantages to nation states that aren't saddled with delusions of imperial grandeur?
yr two "central" parties well i don't think anybody's come to a broad agreement about where the centre is but given the general point aren't you close to describing the advantages of a one-party state with a shifting cast of aparatchiks?
― Todd Phillips, party auteur (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 8 February 2020 12:24 (four years ago) link
Are you basically saying a bigger Sinn Fein, for example, is a threat to a strong and stable middle?
― Le Bateau Ivre, Saturday, 8 February 2020 12:40 (four years ago) link
good scoping question ty
will be back in a wee while
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 12:50 (four years ago) link
aren't you close to describing the advantages of a one-party state with a shifting cast of aparatchiks?
NV otm
― Saxophone Of Futility (Michael B), Saturday, 8 February 2020 13:23 (four years ago) link
i'm not saying there *aren't* advantages to that
― Todd Phillips, party auteur (Noodle Vague), Saturday, 8 February 2020 13:24 (four years ago) link
any govt?
an irish govt in the irish political context generally?
this next govt specifically?
"realistically" vs "hope for" not duelling there?
and then we can get on to whether or not the question is being asked of an adjudicator already provided with an agreed universal logbook of "best" or whether it's being asked of a given interested party, in which case lol
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 13:41 (four years ago) link
overall, are you asking ireland to admit its non-imperial privilege? (!)
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 13:42 (four years ago) link
woof!
the question interests me specifically (and probably very obviously) because of current uk/us ilx politically noseholding of *any* nominal centre. it doesn't seem to me that it matters what or where that is for the purposes of the question tbh.
specific to context, the centre is not a moral judgement value (horror!) but can be fairly roughly defined and agreed i think, even if you look in from outside. FF are centre left, FG are centre right-right, Lab are centre-left-left, SF are centre-left-left, PBP are hard left, Aontú, National Party are hard right, etc
the social democrats are a young, small sample but I think I'd call em centre enough?
I am specifically *not* describing a one-party state. I am *maybe* asking about, in no particular order, the advantages of:
- large stable centre (stable has crashed the country obv, so again thats descriptive of amorphous mass of electoral power and not a valus judgement of effect)
- that nonetheless crucially incorporates an option of 'throw the bums out!" while keeping the option of a non-extreme protest vote alternative (electoral DC power supply nest pas)
- that nonetheless offers additionally (as recently trialled) an option to have the bums in together (be that a hard or soft coalition) and additionally
- can offer an option of which bums lord it over the other bums in the above scenario and to what degree
- as well as one set of bums, but flavoured with the varying sprinklings of further-spectrum heavy metals as may appeal
separately, apparatchiks: i dont know fully as a descriptor what may be inherent and implicit here but you may find my sympathies for faceless bureaucrats as the hand on the levers of strategic movement in a given political system somewhat softer than most, given that i am one etc
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 13:55 (four years ago) link
i. everything is a threat to a strong and stable middle, the universe is entropic
ii.im not sure our system, building in the options for change as laid out briefly above, is the most "stable" as may be meant in the loaded mayesian term offered but i can roll with it if we dont get fussy
iii. yes, in short, and ofc we can not presume that its a bad thing at all at all, depending on whether we are the posited auditor of a known/agreed "good/bad" book nest pas
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 13:58 (four years ago) link
Aontú are an odd match for the hard right in some ways:
Finally, it is imperative on this centenary of the First Dáil that workers have an unambiguous right to collective bargaining and trade union membership across the whole island. A constitutional referendum should be held to enshrine this right in Bunreacht na hÉireann.
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:20 (four years ago) link
I'm not unsympathetic to the line of "would you all feck off and leave the civil servants to it"
― Andrew Farrell, Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:23 (four years ago) link
meant centre-left-left-left for SF
but its also worth thinking about/differentiating between
- the spectral positioning of the party as theory/policy
- the spectral positioning of the polled votes for the party (this is ofc difficult to measure, and in any case given the options noted above, arguably the irish voter has a far greater opportunity to pin their tail v close to the specific donkey's rump they desire vs eg the very obvious tensions between the factions within the broad church of LABOUR in the uk system)
im just musing to meself now but its a rugby/pie saturday and theres a storm outside also obv election day so yknow
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:31 (four years ago) link
xps to AF
yes aontú are, id admit, probably not well placed in my above randomings, thats my hangover from essentially thinking of them as a one-issue churchist party
they are the sf renua, so a centre-left-left hard catholic party
again tho, does it not speak to the quality of choice available? obv im arguing so anyway.
also, maybe yeah what im also arguing for is a very strong, essentially undemocratic civil service of professional expertise that the political sideshow barely touches.
doesnt everyone on ilx end up, at heart, arguing for their own preferred version of "immensely powerful cabal that does what it likes for the greater benefit of the public (nb fuck what the public thinks it wants)?
nest pas
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:37 (four years ago) link
Has that storm got bad enough to affect turnout yet. It hits us tomorrow and they are talking about torrential rain, 70mph winds - a bit of a doozy.
― calzino, Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:46 (four years ago) link
https://www.thejournal.ie/woman-celery-kerry-ejected-polling-4998129-Feb2020/
― seandalai, Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:53 (four years ago) link
Real Kerry
― calzino, Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:55 (four years ago) link
its gusting pretty hard in dublin now calz, i could see it making a difference out the country who would have seen it a few hours ago and where it's expected more severe
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:56 (four years ago) link
i try not to be too judgey about who or what people vote for
i mean do i, i dunno, but whatever
fuck kerry voters and fuck kerrys oft-repeated behaviour towards the 20th century
great characters tho
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 14:58 (four years ago) link
You can be sure the auld wans will be out casting their ballots regardless.Idk if I would characterise FF as centre left? They are clearly to the left of the blue shirts, but they’re still a right wing party. Weren’t they split over abortion? And I would never argue that FG supporting the ref meant they weren’t a right wing party, but there’s a bit more to it than that.
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:01 (four years ago) link
xp only thing you could say about those two is that they are pretty good at getting roads or whatever for the constituents. Isn’t that why they keep voting for them?
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:02 (four years ago) link
if its a little out of character for me to say that
no, i think they vote for them because they are hoodwinked cute hoor idiot cavepeople who like cute hoor millionaires giving them a reacharound and telling them its the closest to love theyll ever get
then possibly my strength of feeling will show through
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:10 (four years ago) link
Lol fair enough, they’re fucking awful
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:11 (four years ago) link
where do you put FF, tho? open question.
populist, developer and cod-business, low-regulation, corrupt
but they win their votes through policies that explicitly offer what the middle-odd thirty percent will vote for, and especially big-infrastructure, union-friendly, everyone-gets-a-house measures
i would keep ending up as centre-left meself every time i looked at em, allowing for yeah farmertown catholicism values and other such local traits
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:13 (four years ago) link
Yeah but in my case much of my family are the small farmers and FF is behind them on social values. They don’t do much for the poor afaict. So, centre right, but not anywhere close to FG in this regard.
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:35 (four years ago) link
id be open to be talked around on FF but i dont think we share a view on how far right FG are
or, again, maybe its in that zone above where "what is the centre" is a three or four headed question, idk
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:45 (four years ago) link
FG not as far right as the Tories - lacking the ethno nationalism - but their economic policies are fucking awful and their open disdain for the poor and homeless is disgraceful. That matters.
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:49 (four years ago) link
A starting point that merits consideration: the range of ideological attitudes and policies that may be credibly labelled 'centrist' varies from country to country.
― toilet-cleaning brain surgeon (pomenitul), Saturday, 8 February 2020 15:50 (four years ago) link
yep i think i might have built that in above tbfttp
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 16:04 (four years ago) link
exit poll in ten secs
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 21:59 (four years ago) link
1st pref
FG 22.4Sf 22.3ff 22.2green 7.9lab 4.6
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:00 (four years ago) link
lollllllz
Lol what the fuckLet’s see the second prefs
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:01 (four years ago) link
FIRST PREFS LOL
Fine Gael 22.4%Sinn Féin 22.3%Fianna Fáil 22.2%Green Party 7.9%Labour Party 4.6%Soc Democrats 3.4%Solidarity-PBP 2.8%Margin of error: +/-1.3%— RTÉ News (@rtenews) February 8, 2020
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:02 (four years ago) link
So assuming the boys join again to keep SF out.. SF are the official opposition?
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:04 (four years ago) link
obv transfers will cause havoc
vote mgmt gonna be huge, and we know sf didnt run enough candidates to really see the benefit
and then formation of an actual govt
shared govt between fg/ff a big jump from the silent partner arrangement, but......?
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:05 (four years ago) link
all xp, yeah, but......they were that really anyway?
I mean its basically down to whether fg will play the bottom dog in a conf/supply or whether it will actually be a coalition
― BSC Joan Baez (darraghmac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:06 (four years ago) link
Surely any government formed isn’t going to be stable?SF must be kicking themselves they didn’t run more candidates.
― hyds (gyac), Saturday, 8 February 2020 22:06 (four years ago) link