pitchfork is dumb (#34985859340293849494 in a series.)

Five separate news items about Billie Eilish winning a Grammy

News about the death of Kobe, basketball player, but not a peep about Sean Reinert, musician

2017:

Pitchfork’s coverage of the 59th annual Grammy Awards yielded the music site’s highest traffic day ever last Monday. With 1.5 million unique viewers, the music site saw a 275 percent increase over its 400,000 average daily unique views.

so sick of all these Bonnie Raitt articles!

The Florida hip-hop continuum—from Miami bass to Trick Daddy to Rick Ross to Raider Klan—has never really fit neatly into the Southern rap tradition.

Without Uncle Luke, Atlanta rap would sound like Arrested Development

well lord it's obvious we got a relationship

Rap-a-Lot (imo)

Atlanta really didn't develop much until later, MC Shy D wasn't very distinctive just influences from NY and Miami

I agree the statement is weird, given that Miami had an identity before what we think of as "southern rap" even existed

I mean if your definition of Southern rap is limited to the Big KRIT definition of “Country Shit” maybe, but all Atlanta rap from ‘87-‘91 was heavily indebted to Luke (who also put out Shy D’s record) not to mention the direct line to So So Def-era bass and then crunk shortly after. This isn’t exactly splitting hairs!

I agree!

Southern rap started with Bubba Sparxx.

nah, it was Justin Timberlake

"Atlanta really didn't develop much until later, MC Shy D wasn't very distinctive just influences from NY and Miami"

sure but kilo was doing pretty distinctive stuff in terms of both style and content as early as 90, and direct lines of influence can be drawn from him to outkast, gucci, cee-lo, d4l, etc. raheem the dream too, who literally put on fabo and young dro, two of the central style generators of '00s atlanta

the gruffer side of goodie mob -> jeezy -> 2 chainz too can prob be traced back to sammy sam and the hard boys, who draw heavily on ll cool j (basically a miami bass artist by adoption the same the showboys are new orleans bounce) and rap-a-lot , respectively

also it's especially insane to say that raider klan is disconnected from the southern rap tradition they were basically a three 6 mafia cover band when they started

whiney sent me this last night and i did not give a fuck but now i'm mad

kilo / raheem / sammy sam were all innovating while working broadly in the miami bass tradition, i should say

This retrospective “review” spends three paragraphs in the middle actually talking about the album, before drifting off into increasingly fuzzy and box-ticking discourse. It’s kind of a bummer.

...just realized they timed this to coincide with the Super Bowl Halftime show, lol

I dunno, I think of Sunday Reviews as inviting much more of a cultural-criticism approach. Since the albums came out years ago, the reviews function less as a consumer guide and more as a way of putting those albums into context, in the way that a 33 1/3 book on the album would.

I realise this isn't exactly an original point to make, but isn't Pitchfork supposed to be the place we go to get away from the likes of Shakira?

The Super Bowl tie-in makes it even worse.

Why would anyone want to get away from Shakira? What kind of business model is that?

xpost that was my initial thought about the Halsey review, but it turns out I was wrong

isn't Pitchfork supposed to be the place we go to get away from the likes of Shakira?

― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Monday, February 3, 2020 4:38 AM (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

it hasn't been that for at least a decade

Yeah, I know they've been at this for a long time, but that still doesn't make it any more palatable. There are a million other websites in the world where you can read about Shakira.

the reason the "pitchfork is dumb" thread will soon reach 16,000 posts is that it took way to long to grasp that a model allowing you to hide away from "the likes of" was a model that kept you dumb

it's still not great at thinking abt all the stuff it spent so long hiding away from

Yeah, I know they've been at this for a long time, but that still doesn't make it any more palatable. There are a million other websites in the world where you can read about Shakira.

― does it look like i'm here (jon123), Monday, February 3, 2020 7:00 AM (six minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

fwiw I agree with you, but luckily there are plenty of other places online to read about niche, non-mainstream music

the reason the "pitchfork is dumb" thread will soon reach 16,000 posts is that it took way to long to grasp that a model allowing you to hide away from "the likes of" was a model that kept you dumb

Believe me, I hear more than enough of Shakira in everyday life situations without wanting to.

nearly 15 years since this ship sailed, christ. not even certain why shakira’s your line in the sand, nor do i believe there are even thousands of websites on the rapidly shrinking internet on which to read critical writing about shakira

yes because if there's one thing we desperately need it's "critical writing" about pop stars

Brad OTM.

FWIW, I began to hang out on this message board 17 years ago because it featured smart people writing critically about pop music. So this seems like a weird place to air that complaint.

I honestly thought the piece on Shakira was good and informative. I didn't really need more paragraphs telling me what Whenever, Wherever sounds like, I kinda remember. But the context was illuminating.

For me it isn't the pivot to critical writing about mainstream pop music (and the corniest of indie rock) I find troubling as much as the exclusion and abandonment (which, if you're thinking in terms of niche genres like free jazz or black metal and taking into account Pfork's enduring influence on tastes, is basically erasure) of almost everything else

that's a bad sentence but you get my drift

afaict they review more jazz than ever

I said free jazz. I also didn't mean the 0.0002% of jazz (mostly coming from the London We Out Here scene and / or Kamasi adjacent) they've deemed worthy of coverage this year. Would be nice to see some coverage of people like Julia Hülsmann (and ECM artists in general), Mary Halvorson, John Zorn, Dave Rempis, Tomeka Reid, etc etc etc. There's a great new Bill Frisell album with Petra Haden they haven't bothered to review.

did those genres receive more coverage in the Golden Age of Pitchfork?

no

They still employ Andy Beta, who reviews stuff like that all the time

xp

Andy Beta and Phil Sherburne are two of the reasons I still occasionally check in.

Perhaps I’ve given the impression I care more than I do. I've long resigned myself to the fact that most of the music I listen to - techno / ambient / drone, some death metal, some jazz - is not really served by Pfork, so I don’t usually make a habit of visiting the site. But I think it's weird to just dismiss jon123's complaints, which to me are valid, even if some of us are tired of flogging this particular horse

Why?

Because once upon a time it provided a refuge from the corporate entertainment it now doggedly promotes?

I do believe that was the point jon123 was making. If I'm mistaken, I apologize.

yes it once upon a time approached the problem in a smug and a dumb way, hence 16000 posts dunking on it

because no one dunks on it now

I don't think it 'promotes' Shakira by talking about the album?

It got 7,6, hardly a rave

xxp

1. "Once upon a time" was a long time ago. (Seriously, P4k started reviewing pop songs in 2003.) The site has evolved, thankfully. And not just about the genres it covers; the criticism is also sharper and more thoughtful, and it's less of a boys club.

2. Writing about an artist != pr2omoting them.

needs to be said--laundry service is a good album. they didn't deliver a fawning retrospective of the j. lo self-titled album for a reason.

People who whine about "corporate music" just because it's corporate music don't actually like music; they like being special and use obscure music to make up for not having a personality.

I didn't really need more paragraphs telling me what Whenever, Wherever sounds like, I kinda remember.

And I remember the conversations around Shakira’s skin & hair color in relation to her crossover success; as well as ppl making fun of her name and “breasts are small and humble” lyric, etc. I’m not sure why we need all those points dutifully rehashed; I’d rather have read something fresh & illuminating about the actual album. But whatever

It kinda felt like — “Shakira’s in the Super Bowl, but let’s not forgot these Problematic Aspects around her initial success in the U.S. (And btw, 7.6)”